Haha, nice, I thought the costume choice was funny!
I think it was vital! Connor knew that he had to get Max out of his own head, and pants pissingly drunk with a beautiful latina is just what the doctor ordered! I give SOOO much props to the patience of Marta. Come on Max, how are you going to show pictures of your ex-ish fiancee to a half-naked woman!?! Marta is probably the most saintly character in this story, other than maybe Ken.
I liked her. Sardonically patient, had her own heartbreak going on, but wouldn't share. She seemed like she would be fun to hang out with. I felt bad ruining her evening by hooking her up with Max. But as Max pointed out, even if they didn't have sex they had fun ...
I will say, I didn't like how long it took for Max to admit, well ok, she didn't really cheat per say, and had to explain what really happened. It was too easy to come into friendly territory and start throwing objectively bad accusations without personal culpability. Maybe by taking the weight off of Max a bit by letting him cut loose it really helped him to open up more appropriately, and that was really the key to getting him to develop his plan with Maggie.
To be honest though, she did cheat...just not with Cole. It was with Jay. I get he’s in the closet and lets it happen, but he didn’t set all of that up. Maggie wanted to do something with Jay before knowing Max’s kink.
Call me Mr. Nitpicky lol...I agree the Jay stuff is almost like it happened in a different story. But he had to work through the stuff with Jay at the lodge with Maggie...all that enlightens why he acted the way he did at certain points with her and Cole.
Max is still wrong when he decides to consider it not as cheating. She did cheat, but he lets her get away with so much because he feels complicit. His complicity makes him assume a hero posture—that male thing where he will take the bullet (and/but remove Maggie's agency). Maggie cheated with Jay, plain and simple. Max feels so much shame over the pleasure he receives from it all he can't even tell what's right and wrong anymore.
kt, have we abandoned the lovely Carol already? Her thread has not grown in more than a day. I still think the COle-Carol relationship is the iceberg of this story.
On your TV shows - Crashing lacks the angst and kink of your books; timing suggests that the producer could certainly have met the Mapplethorpes before making those shows, or at least changing the names of the two protagonists. Pete does not have the redeeming qualities of the other Pete or Geoff. Easy's characters tend to the insipid side generally, yours have more depth, grit, and interest.
And I cannot leave without this reference to another book, LHW2: your ability to capture nuance is wonderful. I am thinking of the scene at the Lakeside club where Geoff sees just by the body language, one guy pointing at another guy with his finger while holding a beer bottle in the same hand, that it is not his kind of place. Assume you grew up alongside a number of second generation immigrants from southern Europe; you portrayed the subculture well.
As for Northwestern, I think it was a necessary trip for Max. Allowed him to work out hos feelings and realize he needed to confront everything with Maggie. I liked Marta too...perhaps her own unsaid experiences helped her empathize with Max’s plight.
I think the road trip to connor was abaoulutely necessary for max ti get his head back on straight. Marta was probably an important moment at connors that he could have been knocking boots with her but felt like he was betraying Maggie aans even confessed the near coitus to maggie. I felt that was an attempt to spur a jealousy from maggie and she didnt bite. Proof again she had already made up her mind.
I did get quite laugh at a bunch of "i love you man" drunks. After bleeding his heart he empties his stomach. Classic.
I think the road trip to connor was abaoulutely necessary for max ti get his head back on straight. Marta was probably an important moment at connors that he could have been knocking boots with her but felt like he was betraying Maggie aans even confessed the near coitus to maggie. I felt that was an attempt to spur a jealousy from maggie and she didnt bite. Proof again she had already made up her mind.
I did get quite laugh at a bunch of "i love you man" drunks. After bleeding his heart he empties his stomach. Classic.
John I don’t know if he was attempting to make Maggie jealous as much as he was just trying to be truthful in their moment of exposing all their truths. But I do agree the fact that Maggie wasn’t ultimately that upset was a big sign. If Cole had told her he made out with a girl while they’re all apart, I think you see a different reaction.
@wa- yea the best of the worst. With age comes wisdom i nk longer enjoy consuming a hundred bucks worth of alcohol then pour it down the toilet or should i say spew.
@jl23- good point . i think id like to reconsider my comment to mean he may have started to try make maggie jealousy but when she didnt react how he expected then realized he wasnt gaining ground with her and he certainly didnt want to lose any. Think of the kid caught with the hand in the cookie jar "what are you doing?" "Getting a cookie for you" There was no real reason for himnto be honest at all nothing really happened. Thats the point that makes me think he was testing for a jealous reaction or like other women are interested in me too. Maybe we need KT to give us insight to why max decided to confess a none event.
John - I'm with JL here that Max was not at all trying to make Maggie jealous, you can tell in the lead up to him confessing he was, as JL said, confessing his sins. The reason he said what he did was to feel better about what happened that day.
JL - I had the same thought you did about Maggie's reaction to Max's confession, she sort of feigned like she cared, I think there was a painless slap, but really did not care about it. Instead it turned almost cutesy, like "yeah, and then I showed a picture of you to her and said I missed you." It was almost sad given what activities were happening behind Maggie.
To be fair, I do think Maggie was a little upset when she thought Max may have slept with another woman, so there was a little jealousy there. But not near where she would have for Cole IMO.
Yeah didn’t think about it till John brought it up. Then when I went back I thought...”gee she got over that quickly.” Its the little things...probably Maggie didn’t even make that connection when it happened.
What she might say is that she forgave him quickly because she just wanted to reconcile everyone, and that she would have done the same if it was Cole confessing. I’m dubious about that though.
I don’t think I’m emotionally prepared to write that letter. I’m in a good place with my feelings about the story and you want to take me to a dark place lol.
But for part A, I think I’m writing the letter to Maggie, and I think I’m unburdening myself of all those feelings I’ve let build inside me. Everything about how I felt seeing her with Cole and grow closer to him. But also everything about my desires and how they led us to this point.
Maybe if Max had done that, Maggie doesn’t go home and tell her parents about it, and maybe the wedding doesn’t get canceled. But maybe that’s not the best thing for Max anyway in the end. Actually, I think it’s definitely not.
Cole has taken Maggie for his own. He fooled me, Mom, they both did. It was just a stupid distraction, a stupid game until we got married. I said it was okay, but it wasn't. It's all my fault... I didn't want to lose her. My hands are shaking so bad I can barely type. How do I make them stop shaking?
I found them, together, and it broke me. It blind-sighted me. How could they do this to me? In my rage I ripped the ring from her finger and stormed off. She didn't want me to, mom..but I did anyway. Cole right there, telling her to let me do it. I was so angry at her..I fucked up so bad.
Maggie won't stop calling me. I can't barely focus my eyes but I know it's her name on the caller ID. I know she's upset and crying. I want to answer so bad but how can I? I can't let let her see me like this, see how pathetic I am. I don't even know how to talk to her anymore. I'm so fucking mad at her but how can I be? It's my own damn fault! She's hurting and I can't do anything about it.
I just want to make it all stop, Mom. I need her in my life and I don't know how to fix this. Please, tell me what to do. Tell me there's something I can say to make things go back to the way they were. That's all I want..
By the time you receive this letter you will have learned that I have, for the moment anyway, called off the wedding. I do this with a heavy heart and with deep love for your daughter. {add some tear stains here}. I realize she may not be prepared for a long term commitment with me and I want to let her have some time to explore her feelings.
I discovered this in a most painful way, but I don't blame Maggie as I was complicit in the event. I love Maggie with my whole heart and while she lives I will love no other {last part was sir Lancelot from "Excalibur"}{add more tear drops here}. It is obvious to me now, that Maggie while she still loves me is sharing that with another and I don't have her whole heart. I can't live like that so until Maggie decides I will keep my distance. I will leave it to Maggie to fill in the details of who the other might be but I think you know already.
This obviously means I will not be attending this weeks gathering at your home. I pray Maggie remembers me but all I want for her is her happiness.
with love your friend, Max
P.S. with all due respect it was never my intention to be apart of your businesses. I just don't want you to offer something i'd refuse anyway. Thank you for those already offered.
@JL23- dog ate the homework ehh? np not requisite assignment anyway I'm just wondering who you think would be the person max would actually sit down and write to, and what you think he'd say.
interesting we all picked a different person to write to. not sure what that means though lol
Thanks Professor C. I'd tell June the good news but shes DEAD!
Thought about doing an SOS to Ken, but started with the mom thing instead.. I was thinking more about what he would feel like in that moment. I can't imagine him wanting to write a letter/email to Maggie, if he did he'd never send it. At least not that night, maybe a few weeks later after 400 amendments. Tough one..
A++ to yours too. Especially liked the Sir Lancelot reference.
That letter to Maggie would be a tough one to get through. I wouldn't think max capable to do it. Which is why I went with the Beckers. If Max was able to hang on to his hurt and anger maybe he gets thru it. but he lost all that as he waslked away from twighlight.
Interesting thought about Ken WA. Id never thought to go there. I was thinking either mom or dad first but neither have a lot of influence over Maggie. So I thought a letter to the Beckers might help reign Maggie back in. The reality is probably they were happier with Cole than Max especially since I burned his bridges with the PS, but that was just his anger popping out.
So who do we think got the better ring from Max, Maggie or Keely? Jesus who am I kidding...Max was working and doing well for himself when he bought for Keely...she got a ROCK no doubt.
John, lol that would be funny. But I suspect that dress is long gone. I’m guessing it was never purchased given the wedding was so far out, or if it was Carol returned it. But you know Keely and Maggie will go shopping together for that dress, so maybe she’ll point her in that direction.
Though it sounds like Maggie and Keely have different styles. Keely seems like a no nonsense kind of girl, described as usually not wearing much makeup. Yet another reason to love her...I love woman who are comfortable enough in their own beauty that they don’t feel like they have to use tons of makeup.
Not saying Maggie isn’t that, but I’d suspect she’s more into fashion trends now than Keely.
Connor's dorm room is a real place, although it is recently defunct I still had to use it.
ReplyDeleteSchroon Lake was too, any reason why there?
DeleteNo, just an appropriate place for that type of home. Good logistically for them.
DeleteHaha, nice, I thought the costume choice was funny!
ReplyDeleteI think it was vital! Connor knew that he had to get Max out of his own head, and pants pissingly drunk with a beautiful latina is just what the doctor ordered! I give SOOO much props to the patience of Marta. Come on Max, how are you going to show pictures of your ex-ish fiancee to a half-naked woman!?! Marta is probably the most saintly character in this story, other than maybe Ken.
I liked her. Sardonically patient, had her own heartbreak going on, but wouldn't share. She seemed like she would be fun to hang out with. I felt bad ruining her evening by hooking her up with Max. But as Max pointed out, even if they didn't have sex they had fun ...
DeleteI will say, I didn't like how long it took for Max to admit, well ok, she didn't really cheat per say, and had to explain what really happened. It was too easy to come into friendly territory and start throwing objectively bad accusations without personal culpability. Maybe by taking the weight off of Max a bit by letting him cut loose it really helped him to open up more appropriately, and that was really the key to getting him to develop his plan with Maggie.
DeleteHe was having trouble with whether she cheated or not. For a while he was convinced she had, but then ... maybe he’s not so sure ...
DeleteTo be honest though, she did cheat...just not with Cole. It was with Jay. I get he’s in the closet and lets it happen, but he didn’t set all of that up. Maggie wanted to do something with Jay before knowing Max’s kink.
DeleteYou're so nitpicky, lol. She cheated, but there needed to be caveats to that.
DeleteThe story is very different if he shows up to Northwestern purely based on seeing Maggie hold Jay's balls in lingerie.
That seems like ages ago!
Call me Mr. Nitpicky lol...I agree the Jay stuff is almost like it happened in a different story. But he had to work through the stuff with Jay at the lodge with Maggie...all that enlightens why he acted the way he did at certain points with her and Cole.
DeleteMax is still wrong when he decides to consider it not as cheating. She did cheat, but he lets her get away with so much because he feels complicit. His complicity makes him assume a hero posture—that male thing where he will take the bullet (and/but remove Maggie's agency). Maggie cheated with Jay, plain and simple. Max feels so much shame over the pleasure he receives from it all he can't even tell what's right and wrong anymore.
Deletekt, have we abandoned the lovely Carol already? Her thread has not grown in more than a day. I still think the COle-Carol relationship is the iceberg of this story.
DeleteOn your TV shows - Crashing lacks the angst and kink of your books; timing suggests that the producer could certainly have met the Mapplethorpes before making those shows, or at least changing the names of the two protagonists. Pete does not have the redeeming qualities of the other Pete or Geoff. Easy's characters tend to the insipid side generally, yours have more depth, grit, and interest.
And I cannot leave without this reference to another book, LHW2: your ability to capture nuance is wonderful. I am thinking of the scene at the Lakeside club where Geoff sees just by the body language, one guy pointing at another guy with his finger while holding a beer bottle in the same hand, that it is not his kind of place. Assume you grew up alongside a number of second generation immigrants from southern Europe; you portrayed the subculture well.
As for Northwestern, I think it was a necessary trip for Max. Allowed him to work out hos feelings and realize he needed to confront everything with Maggie. I liked Marta too...perhaps her own unsaid experiences helped her empathize with Max’s plight.
ReplyDeleteHis feelings...not hos feelings. To be clear I don’t think anyone in this story is a ho...well maybe Jay.
DeleteI liked it, figured he wouldn't go all the way with Marta. Like JL23 said, pushed him to realize he needed to confront Maggie.
ReplyDeleteI think the road trip to connor was abaoulutely necessary for max ti get his head back on straight. Marta was probably an important moment at connors that he could have been knocking boots with her but felt like he was betraying Maggie aans even confessed the near coitus to maggie. I felt that was an attempt to spur a jealousy from maggie and she didnt bite. Proof again she had already made up her mind.
ReplyDeleteI did get quite laugh at a bunch of "i love you man" drunks. After bleeding his heart he empties his stomach. Classic.
Aren't those drunks the best..
DeleteI think the road trip to connor was abaoulutely necessary for max ti get his head back on straight. Marta was probably an important moment at connors that he could have been knocking boots with her but felt like he was betraying Maggie aans even confessed the near coitus to maggie. I felt that was an attempt to spur a jealousy from maggie and she didnt bite. Proof again she had already made up her mind.
ReplyDeleteI did get quite laugh at a bunch of "i love you man" drunks. After bleeding his heart he empties his stomach. Classic.
John I don’t know if he was attempting to make Maggie jealous as much as he was just trying to be truthful in their moment of exposing all their truths. But I do agree the fact that Maggie wasn’t ultimately that upset was a big sign. If Cole had told her he made out with a girl while they’re all apart, I think you see a different reaction.
Delete@wa- yea the best of the worst. With age comes wisdom i nk longer enjoy consuming a hundred bucks worth of alcohol then pour it down the toilet or should i say spew.
Delete@jl23- good point . i think id like to reconsider my comment to mean he may have started to try make maggie jealousy but when she didnt react how he expected then realized he wasnt gaining ground with her and he certainly didnt want to lose any. Think of the kid caught with the hand in the cookie jar "what are you doing?"
"Getting a cookie for you"
There was no real reason for himnto be honest at all nothing really happened. Thats the point that makes me think he was testing for a jealous reaction or like other women are interested in me too.
Maybe we need KT to give us insight to why max decided to confess a none event.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteJohn - I'm with JL here that Max was not at all trying to make Maggie jealous, you can tell in the lead up to him confessing he was, as JL said, confessing his sins. The reason he said what he did was to feel better about what happened that day.
DeleteJL - I had the same thought you did about Maggie's reaction to Max's confession, she sort of feigned like she cared, I think there was a painless slap, but really did not care about it. Instead it turned almost cutesy, like "yeah, and then I showed a picture of you to her and said I missed you." It was almost sad given what activities were happening behind Maggie.
To be fair, I do think Maggie was a little upset when she thought Max may have slept with another woman, so there was a little jealousy there. But not near where she would have for Cole IMO.
DeleteI get what your saying and concede the point. Maybe i was just hoping for a jealous reaction from Maggie. Oh well.
DeleteOverlooked that Maggie not getting jealous (or at least getting over it shockingly fast) was a bad sign for Max. Damn.
DeleteYeah didn’t think about it till John brought it up. Then when I went back I thought...”gee she got over that quickly.” Its the little things...probably Maggie didn’t even make that connection when it happened.
DeleteWhat she might say is that she forgave him quickly because she just wanted to reconcile everyone, and that she would have done the same if it was Cole confessing. I’m dubious about that though.
You guys wanna try a homework assignment?
ReplyDeleteYou are max. You just walked in the room at twilight and pulled the ring off her finger..
You go back to your dorm pack a few things and sit down and write a letter
A) To whom?
B) Write the letter
Papers due on KTs desk tomorrow pm.
I don’t think I’m emotionally prepared to write that letter. I’m in a good place with my feelings about the story and you want to take me to a dark place lol.
DeleteBut for part A, I think I’m writing the letter to Maggie, and I think I’m unburdening myself of all those feelings I’ve let build inside me. Everything about how I felt seeing her with Cole and grow closer to him. But also everything about my desires and how they led us to this point.
Maybe if Max had done that, Maggie doesn’t go home and tell her parents about it, and maybe the wedding doesn’t get canceled. But maybe that’s not the best thing for Max anyway in the end. Actually, I think it’s definitely not.
Dear Mom,
DeleteCole has taken Maggie for his own. He fooled me, Mom, they both did. It was just a stupid distraction, a stupid game until we got married. I said it was okay, but it wasn't. It's all my fault... I didn't want to lose her. My hands are shaking so bad I can barely type. How do I make them stop shaking?
I found them, together, and it broke me. It blind-sighted me. How could they do this to me? In my rage I ripped the ring from her finger and stormed off. She didn't want me to, mom..but I did anyway. Cole right there, telling her to let me do it. I was so angry at her..I fucked up so bad.
Maggie won't stop calling me. I can't barely focus my eyes but I know it's her name on the caller ID. I know she's upset and crying. I want to answer so bad but how can I? I can't let let her see me like this, see how pathetic I am. I don't even know how to talk to her anymore. I'm so fucking mad at her but how can I be? It's my own damn fault! She's hurting and I can't do anything about it.
I just want to make it all stop, Mom. I need her in my life and I don't know how to fix this. Please, tell me what to do. Tell me there's something I can say to make things go back to the way they were. That's all I want..
Max
Dear Mr and Mrs Becker,
DeleteBy the time you receive this letter you will have learned that I have, for the moment anyway, called off the wedding. I do this with a heavy heart and with deep love for your daughter. {add some tear stains here}. I realize she may not be prepared for a long term commitment with me and I want to let her have some time to explore her feelings.
I discovered this in a most painful way, but I don't blame Maggie as I was complicit in the event. I love Maggie with my whole heart and while she lives I will love no other {last part was sir Lancelot from "Excalibur"}{add more tear drops here}.
It is obvious to me now, that Maggie while she still loves me is sharing that with another and I don't have her whole heart. I can't live like that so until Maggie decides I will keep my distance. I will leave it to Maggie to fill in the details of who the other might be but I think you know already.
This obviously means I will not be attending this weeks gathering at your home.
I pray Maggie remembers me but all I want for her is her happiness.
with love your friend,
Max
P.S. with all due respect it was never my intention to be apart of your businesses. I just don't want you to offer something i'd refuse anyway. Thank you for those already offered.
dam WA if I'm grading A++.
Delete@JL23- dog ate the homework ehh? np not requisite assignment anyway I'm just wondering who you think would be the person max would actually sit down and write to, and what you think he'd say.
interesting we all picked a different person to write to. not sure what that means though lol
Sorry John just can’t bring myself to write that letter...but I think it’s to Maggie, and I think it’s basically what he tells her in the lodge.
DeleteThanks Professor C. I'd tell June the good news but shes DEAD!
DeleteThought about doing an SOS to Ken, but started with the mom thing instead.. I was thinking more about what he would feel like in that moment. I can't imagine him wanting to write a letter/email to Maggie, if he did he'd never send it. At least not that night, maybe a few weeks later after 400 amendments. Tough one..
A++ to yours too. Especially liked the Sir Lancelot reference.
That letter to Maggie would be a tough one to get through. I wouldn't think max capable to do it. Which is why I went with the Beckers. If Max was able to hang on to his hurt and anger maybe he gets thru it. but he lost all that as he waslked away from twighlight.
DeleteInteresting thought about Ken WA. Id never thought to go there. I was thinking either mom or dad first but neither have a lot of influence over Maggie. So I thought a letter to the Beckers might help reign Maggie back in. The reality is probably they were happier with Cole than Max especially since I burned his bridges with the PS, but that was just his anger popping out.
Dear Zales,
ReplyDeleteWhat is your "buy back policy?"
Love,
Max
Sorry, I wanted to get this in before I failed.
Hey! That's what I said he should have done when that chapter came out LOL
DeleteSo who do we think got the better ring from Max, Maggie or Keely? Jesus who am I kidding...Max was working and doing well for himself when he bought for Keely...she got a ROCK no doubt.
Delete@2b2h and WA lol how do you know it wasnt a Kays. Or K-mart special when he and his brothers went looking for some jeans.
Delete@jl23
DeleteDo you think maggie told keely "i have just the bridal gown for you, it was nicer than mine"
@jl23
DeleteDo you think maggie told keely "i have just the bridal gown for you, it was nicer than mine"
@2b2h and WA lol how do you know it wasnt a Kays. Or K-mart special when he and his brothers went looking for some jeans.
DeleteJohn, lol that would be funny. But I suspect that dress is long gone. I’m guessing it was never purchased given the wedding was so far out, or if it was Carol returned it. But you know Keely and Maggie will go shopping together for that dress, so maybe she’ll point her in that direction.
DeleteThough it sounds like Maggie and Keely have different styles. Keely seems like a no nonsense kind of girl, described as usually not wearing much makeup. Yet another reason to love her...I love woman who are comfortable enough in their own beauty that they don’t feel like they have to use tons of makeup.
Not saying Maggie isn’t that, but I’d suspect she’s more into fashion trends now than Keely.