A man isn't solely responsible for a woman's pleasure. If a woman doesn't give feedback to a man, especially an inexperienced one, about what works and doesn't work for her, she's just as culpable for her lack of orgasms. But as far as Harrison knows, Taylor is just a sexually inexperienced as he is (I'm convinced she isn't but there is contradictory evidence on that and I aborted my reread) and women are traditionally more sexually closed off (Thanks, Puritan heritage!), so he would try to take the lead. That he hasn't accomplished it once in ~25 months of sexual activity however limited despite being cognizant and probably unhappy about it is an indictment of his prowess.
That she immediately has amazing sexual experiences with 3 other men despite them being self-centered pricks who all things being equal should carry that selfishness over into bed and thus be shit no matter their relative experience is absolutely playing to a trope. That is compounded by Harrison's feelings of inadequacy. He might consider himself more responsible and thus more adult, but he specifically notes how they are MEN, not guys/boys.
Harrison and Taylor have all kinds of other obstacles including some of their own making. I don't see why Harrison being sexually inadequate is a necessary one, especially since that's fairly low in terms of causes of female infidelity, even among younger individuals. If he gets better over time and is thus able to better satisfy Taylor, someone could say that her infidelity was at least in part a good thing because he wouldn't have changed without an impetus to change.
I respect that you take pride in your works, but not everything is going to be for everyone. This story was well written, but I'm not sure I like it and want to follow it. In addition to the aforementioned inadequacy issues which are typically a hard limit for me as a reader, I loathe Taylor, especially since I can't write off her behavior as a product of a mind damaged by horrific abuse, so I don't want Harrison to make it work with her. When Harrison finally learns to respect himself, he's going to realize that friendship and love aren't nearly enough. Relationships are built upon a foundation of respect and we've seen none of that from Taylor at any time in this story so far. Yes, Taylor could grow to be that person, but that just puts him where he should have been after being her best friend for 9+ years. To continue with the building metaphor, that would be fixing the foundation, but wouldn't solve the fact that the house is still unlivable due to toxic black mold.
I'm sure I'll like something else you've written better and maybe that will inspire me to give this a second chance. I've gone from hating to loving books before. The Blithedale Romance as I noted in my first post is one of those.
You're still treating supposition as fact: Harrison and Taylor's sex life is complicated, and I hate to give away spoilers (don't read!) but I need to defend Harrison. It is not an indictment of Harrison's prowess at all. What if I told you were he to tumble into bed with someone else he would knock her socks off...? Once again, I'm saying Taylor is responsible for her O, and how she perceives her relationship will determine that. What you supposed--sexual abuse--may not be the root. There are other ways to be fucked up. I can say them but I hate spoilers. I like to reveal stories a bit at a time. I want people to make wrong assumptions then have their heart soar when they were wrong (or right!) or be crushed when they believed as the character did and now find out things are not that way. I've killed babies and I've killed mothers in these books. My hands are bloody. Like I said, I'd be better in Women's Fiction than erotica I guess. There is a lot more happening than sex.
You will be happiest reading Happy Endings. I would not recommend Maggie or Cherry Blossoms, nor Learning Lessons. They upset me when I wrote them!
Also: you say she had amazing sexual experiences with three other men? Did she? Those are mostly related through Harrison's eyes. You don't know Taylor's truth.
Stevie? They made out and touched each other--hardly amazing. Colt? yeah, that was probably pretty good. Brady? You only have Harrison's perspective, not Taylor's. I write in third-person free indirect discourse. It allows me to lie to you because the character is lying to themselves or seeing more than is there. I think the experience she had with Harrison after Colt was profound and far more valuable than her experience with Colt. Can you see it?
And as far as hating Taylor and not wanting it to work out--that's cool. That's exactly where you should be. That's why it's so complicated. He can't help loving her. Despite being lovers they are also best friends. It's meant to be tough. And it's going to get tougher, I have to be honest. What a dilemma for Harrison. But if he cares for his friend, can he see her through this? Should he? I want you to worry, I want you to not want to read it too, ha ha. Stay away from the Maggie series! You're right though, not everything is for everybody and I hundred percent respect it and your opinion too.
Clarification: when I said "I don't want you to read it" that's the plural you, the royal you. Not you Unlucky 7. You I want to read it if you want. I merely meant I want readers to think about bailing on finishing because the reading is troublesome. I like emails from readers who said they had to put the book down for a few weeks because they were too upset to continue. That's a KT fist pump right there.
I can't imagine my reaction to the Maggie series wasn't the most severe of all your readers, but it probably wasn't. Real, physical changes in the way I would think for at least two months. I didn't even know I was capable of mental acrobatics like this, given my reactions when my mind revisits the thought of Maggie before I shut it off like swatting a bug. Given your last few sentences I hope you'll take this as a compliment, but I don't think I'll ever re-read Maggie 1-3.
I admire how you defend your characters, but no amount of creative story-telling can stop the feelings of inadequacy when his significant other is longing for someone else to touch her. It doesn't matter if it was intended or not, it will be interpreted that Harrison was inadequate.
Maybe this other mysterious reason for their problems in the bedroom that you hinted at is the real deal and is game-changing. Couldn't it still be interpreted as Harrison's inadequacy or at least Taylor's presupposed opinion of him lacking in some way to cause her to push him away and be unfaithful? As if he would be unable to overcome it? Surely that's not the case, but of course Harrison would think so!
James Gordon Jr.: Batman? Batman! Why's he running dad?
Lt. James Gordon: Because we have to chase him.
Cop: Okay we're going in! Go, go! Move!
James Gordon Jr.: He didn't do anything wrong.
Lt. James Gordon: Because he's the hero Gotham deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him. Because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian. A watchful protector. A Dark Knight.
Woman's Fiction??? Well I guess I am a guy who love women's fiction and I'm a lover of erotica which can be SO much more than just sex. Fanny Hill comes to mind.
I couldn't stop disagreeing with everything Unlucky 7 had to say btw. Just my opinion as I'm sure I've said plenty that many on here have disagreed with. I hope Taylor and Harrison work it out or find each other. Maybe not the same as they wanted it, because it's a better and more complete level than where they were.
John, TBtH, One of you was fearful that KT’s dedication and hard work would result in a certain phrase creeping into her work-related emails. I think the word “inside” was part of that phrase and it was used repeatedly in Sea Pirate. So, now KT’s autocorrect has that puppy in its memory. Should make for some interesting interoffice communications, KT.
You know, KT, if you could manage a mention by one of the networks in some report on the USSC circus as “highly relevant to the current politically charged atmosphere that surrounds boys high school experiences”, “a searching look at the powerful interplay of hormones, alcohol, and the absence of adult supervision”, etc. you just might be able to quit your day job.
Personally I actually want things to work out between them, otherwise what's the point really? I guess it's the hopeless romantic in me where I wish to see more happy endings than sad ones. I guess that Maggie ended happily, but not in the way I wanted it to. Still the ending was better than I felt about it initially.
I like complicated, imperfect characters, not dull and boring ones.
Ok, I've got some catching up to do but I'm not sure if I'll get around to reading the 200 something comments on the first one, so let me know of any recent discoveries.
I've been taking notes as I go along and I think it's helped me to be more objective in my reading and less emotional. I think the premise for this story is very similar to the premise for Maggie. Where Maggie was a heavily sheltered child which spurred her sexual curiosity, Taylor's childhood was the opposite. Free living type of childhood, surrounded by promiscuous people. So instead of venturing forth in search of new discoveries like Maggie, Taylor's destiny was more of a foregone conclusion. To her at least, and I don't know why.
I can put the pieces together with the slutty sister and unfaithful mother (I think), but I don't understand why she feels like that has to define her. It puzzles me how Taylor can say in the same breath, that Harrison will always be the best thing for her and that she "is going to" sleep around. Not because she has to, but because she wants to. These things contradict each other, sweetheart.
I'm at the 56% mark, so I haven't gotten to the part where Taylor and Harrison make up and fascinate themselves over the possibilities because Harrison's dick gets hard when she's fucks around. And I'm not looking forward to it; as if blood rushing to his organ can magically dispel their problems away. Problems like her being a liar and deceitful and untrustworthy. This relationship doesn't deserve hope, it deserves to die.
There's something profoundly dehumanizing about Harrison's circumstances. I get that that's part of the genre. But I find it dehumanizing when a state of arousal becomes the defining characteristic of a person. I don't like it because it's an acceptance of dishonesty and because it is at odds with the basic level of human respect that people should have for one another. It's the only way Harrison doesn't leave her forever. Maybe he does, but even him watching her, getting off on the idea that it's *his* girl. I find it denigrating and I don't mean cuckolding in general, I mean Harrison's circumstances and to a lesser extent Max's as well. I'm going to finish it, but not out of hope for their relationship. I'm mostly interested in what's going on with Taylor's dad and how it relates to water skiing. Why Taylor was a bitch to her dad for a year after she had to stop competing. So mysterious. Whatever that thing is cannot absolve Taylor but it's intriguing. Every memory so far about Mr. Brooks has shown him to be a nice guy.
It's a steamy novel so far and I'll say KT Morrison touched on a concept that could be the anthem for every sexual fetish on the planet when Taylor was thinking: "It was no wonder she was doing this. If she *could* have this why wouldn't she take it?"
I remember my late teens and early twenties. Didn't take much to get the blood flowing to the reproductive system.. as a matter of fact I think it was hard not to be hard. Harrison doesn't need to see Taylor and player X to get wood. But because of the distance it'll be sex by proxy. Which will keep fueling his need for her. On the other hand if kelsie becomes a thing. Taylor will diminish.
So Bout the concern over Harrison getting his and Taylor not so much...let's face facts here Harrison was desperate for that cherry popping skin to skin event. Had to beg for it = had a raging hard on and a nutsack so full probably was uncomfortable. Anyone here ever been that horned up before? then when you got inside it was everything you thought and popped your cork early? That Taylor wants to experience different cocks while away well at least she is up front about it. Yea she made some big friggin mistakes I'd have left my car an just ran...but Harrison stayed. My brain is telling me to stop thinking as smoke is pour out of my ears .... I think Harrison developed im goa voyeurism watching Taylor and Taylor liked being watched which is her issue...together they compliment each other.
@WA - Glad to see you're still reading, we'll await your remarks! I didn't remember reading anything about Taylor being mad at her dad, so that's interesting. I tried looking up where that might have been but didn't find it. I think a lot of people are focused on Taylor's mom's infidelity because it was alluded to early on, but Taylor eventually says that both were involved in emotional relationships with co-workers.
I haven't let on as much, but I feel like your (and also Jeff's, which is similar) take about why Taylor might fall trap to infidelity, without meaning to be cruel, makes sense. Sort of a feeling of, "Well this was bound to happen, I might as well just admit that I'm going to do it." I don't know, maybe that's too sad, but the way Taylor blames herself for how she handled the end of the summer party, it makes me think she's internalized being a bad person in some ways. I want to learn more!!!
The 'state of arousal doesn't justify her behavior' thing. WA you're up to your old tricks again! I think I see a little better your perspective with this new character, but I think you'll need to read more to get better understanding of what's going on here. That being said, it isn't just about the fact that Max or Harrison's dicks getting hard about their significant other. The way you characterize that makes it so objectionable that it's no wonder you believe Maggie (and Taylor) to be such bad people.
Instead, it's about the behavior of Max and Harrison, likely because of the way they got aroused by the situation, which causes the conversations and actions between them and their significant others that leads to further depravity. It isn't just because of Max's boner that Maggie continued her foray which eventually led to her discovering she would rather be with Cole, it's because Max's boner led him to verbalize and sexualize the concept of being okay with Maggie trying stuff with different people, and putting themselves in situations where the events became bigger than the concept could even be expressed.
I don't know if what I just said made sense so an example might help - Max staying in the foray the entire time was because he wanted to see Maggie let loose with Cole, innocent enough, but what he witnessed was a powerful experience that was probably fundamentally changing Maggie's feelings about Cole for good. A romantic date, fantasy man, good friend, kinky setting, doing exactly the things that turn her on, it all adds up to something bigger than could be imagined. And at no point in the time between the moment of that feeling and afterwards when those states of arousal diminished did Max (Maggie already fully onboard) stop to think they should discuss what was happening rationally.
The real connecting piece in these stories, is youthful exuberance. It's a double edged sword, because it can cause things like the Arab Spring in one moment, and lead to alcohol poisoning or car accidents in the other. Young people taking the reigns on huge concepts like love, expression, and life experience and plunging full tilt with little to no understanding of the consequences, or maybe because the consequences aren't made clear since no one knows what the right course of action is, until they're either in a new reality that they never knew they wanted until they got there, or in too deep into one they didn't want that they can't turn back.
The "you can't have it both ways" thing is a little too black and white for me, at least in the way you characterized it. Sex isn't necessarily love, although I want it to be, but people can parse that act away from love. It does get more complicated though when she doesn't avoid the concept that she might fall in love out West. Now all of a sudden Harrison being "her best thing" starts to become muddy. Hearts big enough to love two people is still a concept I can't necessarily grapple with, but then again, I'm not in that reality (bringing that up again), maybe it makes sense when you really love someone as much as Max and Harrison do.
We agree on what their 'state of arousal' does for their relationships and what it leads to. That's not where my issue is.
It comes down to choice for me. Max had more control over his choice of sharing Maggie. It's when the choice is ripped away that I distrust one these characters. For Max, his choice was that he wanted to be there. For Harrison, it was the basic agreement between lovers: don't cheat. I think my point of view would make a lot more sense to you if I told you that I would really, really like Maggie and Taylor if they weren't dishonest and didn't break the trust.
I agree that it's more complicated than "you can't have it both ways," but in that moment of their relationship, it should've been that simple. Taylor understood that it wasn't right because Harrison was upset and she was crying her eyes out. It's why she puzzles me. But she broke his trust with Stevie *before* that conversation. That's why I don't trust her. And think of precedent it sets when Taylor insists on a break and then fucks some guy an hour later. That's not really honesty. Imagine a scenario where they're finished with college and they're together again and Harrison wants them to be faithful and exclusive and Taylor agrees. Then they get married. Pulling out the 'break' card because a hot guy is visiting in this scenario would be dishonest, no? It's the same situation now, except it was assumed by both of them that they would be exclusive hence the rage and tears.
Of course they actually ***can*** have it both ways, but not by sneaking around and lying. And this leads into my perspective (see dehumanizing rant above*) where it makes me tremble to think of a situation where that kind of dishonesty is acceptable despite established boundaries because of a 'state of arousal'. It's never directly mentioned, it's more like an unknown force that seemingly absolves the female protaganist of her indiscretions while pulling him in like a moth to the flame. As if his feelings of hurt and betrayal are brushed aside, pushed to the curb; as if his feelings and emotions are no longer of relevance. Like something greater than both of them is tugging their strings and guiding them to the places they are supposed to go and that makes it ok. I don't like that.
Don't read too much into that paragraph, maybe I'm reading more into the story telling than what's actually there. The first two sentences, though, are how I feel and hopefully the paragraphs above it explain well enough why I feel that way.
These long ass posts are the beeeeest, you know you like it
The bit about Mr. Brooks is at location 1420 if you're using Kindle. There's clearly some details expertly omitted. Basically Taylor is describing her skiing competitions and then suddenly she stopped and was a bitch to her dad for a year. Why? Was it related? There's something there.
What we know. 1) Taylor was planning to break up with Harrison. 2) they are both fools in love with one another. 3) kelsie is complicit with Taylor. But not with stevie or colt. 4) Taylor did not like it when Harrison pleasured kelsie, but Harrison sort of liked watching Taylor getting her rodgering. 5) KC is gonna kick somebody's ass eventually. 6) Harrison is making tough decisions with only his gut to go on.. did he really stick up for colt.....let him burn baby... Incomplete list but I gotta get back on the ckock.
Also I noted some boundaries that they established: 1. Condoms with everyone but Harrison (location 3564) 2. Their 'open relationship' closes off when they aren't separated (location 3815) 3. Harrison wants to know who she sleeps with and what happens. Can't seem to find the location, but I know they talked about it at some point. Probably some lenience here.
It's assumed that the earlier indiscretions, namely the parts where Taylor takes a steaming pile of shit on Harrison's trust, were grandfathered in because Harrison had no chance against the powerful cuck magic that washed over him.
I was your safe boyfriend, here until you’re ready for better.” “No way, Harrison. You’re for real.” He nodded, looked a little sullen and couldn’t hold her gaze for long. He said, “I’m for real. I’ll be here for you when you come back to Michigan.” She said, “I like that. I couldn’t stand to lose you as a friend.” He made a soft scoff. “I’m your lover.” “You’re my lover,” she agreed. “If you’re okay with that.” His eyes steadied on her. “I am.” “I’ll always be your friend, Harrison. No matter what.” He said, “I want more than that.” “I do, too.” Harrison said in a shaky voice, “Can I come and sit with you?” Her sobs came back to threaten her, and she said, “Please, come and sit with me. I need you to, baby, I need you ...” Harrison scooted up the bed, getting a hand on her knee and she gripped his arms. He said, “Would it be okay if I held you?” “Of course, Harrison. I want you to hold me.” Harrison took her in his arms, and she pushed her face into his neck and cried.
Here comes the kick it's up and good Taylor puts one right in the middle of the friend zone.
That dark and dusky sign post up ahead what's it say "Now entering the friend zone..Welcome Harry"
The fun part will be the reconnect and how Taylor sees how Harry has grown.
I don't like Taylor at all, but Harrison is the one in love with her. I think they have a chance if they stay within their boundaries but I'm hoping Harrison can learn what the emotional equivalent of a big dick looks like in a woman and move on from Taylor.
I think of Taylor as troubled and disturbed in many ways. She doesn't seem that nice but later in the book you find that she deeply cares about Harrison way more than Harrison even knows. I also think that Harrison really under values himself and feels he's not good enough for her.
We know taylor isn't done messing up Harry's heart. If she was thered be no next book. The thing is what form will it take. Will H find out thru the internet. "Omg is that T girl riding cowgirl on the cowboy on xvids!?." What If she meets Jay..we know Maggie put the squeeze on professor Charmichael about Jay's behavior maybe he has to transfer school.. sad for him if he winds up with another girl whose gonna break his heart again..unless professor charmichael has to transfer and meets Taylor ....come on professor Geterdone.
Probably right John C as I think that this is a big part of the series where Harrison needs to find himself. Taylor will also get messed up though, especially if she falls for the wrong guy and ends up alone.
Agree with that Jeff. The potential for emotional devastation on both sides is pretty dam high. If Taylor hooks up with the "in" girls beau, that's gonna be as Inigo Montoya would say "Suffering galore". Same could happen to Harry even if he doesn't do the "in" girl that could turn into a snub and he could get labeled a non performer. If he does do her he could wake up missing a limb....(or maybe a twig.) Even If Taylor becomes the village bike at her school. She be labeled something and for sure someone somewhere will have some selfies or worse of the events.
Just cuz I like it ....I can see KC telling this to colt when he realizes he's been duped and he did boink his sister....replace father with sisters propriety
If I were to predict their future, I would predict that either Taylor crosses a boundary with severe consequence or Harrison discovers a person who causes him to re-evaluate his self worth. I'm not questioning the love Taylor feels for Harrison btw, wasn't ever a question. Their relationship could succeed but Taylor alone created the causation for her own destruction.
Also, and this is completely speculative, but I wonder about Taylor and Kelsey Kay. At the beginning of this novel Taylor really wanted to re-create her 'first' time with Harrison and I was suspicions of why. Maybe she was sexually intimate with Kelsey way before she was sexually intimate with Harrison. Their kisses seemed to come and go a little too casually with a bit of familiarity. Maybe this is related to why she wanted a re-run of her 'first time' beyond not using a condom. Harrison remembers a thought just five years prior when Mr. Brooks was the joyous leader (location 1130) which times pretty well with the flashback from Taylor's perspective when Taylor and Kelsey co-bullied a girl into the toilet. I think this event is related to why she stopped water skiiing and why she suddenly didn't like her dad but I'm not smart enough to figure out why. Maybe Kelsey is involved, maybe she's not.
That's perfect. I can also picture it on the soundtrack for an eighties move about waterskiing, summer, and love. With Elizabeth Shue and Ralph Macchio.
Well for whatever reason, I always think of 80's music when I think of coming of age and summertime stories, even though I grew up in the 90's and came of age in the aughts. The thing is I don't even like 80's music, just modern renditions of it. Go figure ...
I feel like M83 lives in this world of teenagers growing up, the invincibility of youth, feeling left out, all in that retro sound that makes you want to take a drive with your top down in your sleeveless shirt and stone-washed denim shorts even though it's fall ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5cgzcjqOtE
Life is good now, but you've got so much to learn kids ...
I picture the movie Dazed and Confused, Matthew Mcconaughey is Colt and Willey Wiggins is Harrison, except Harrison has more personality than that Mitch character, haha.
@WA again - So I quickly realized after rereading your first entry yesterday that I misread how you were discussing your take on Harrison (and Max's) arousal as defining for the character. You weren't saying that it was merely a problem that he was getting turned on and so everything was fair game because of it, but that these characters are allowing that state of arousal to color their perception of everything to the point where they are even ruining their better judgment as a result. There's a case to be made that, in retrospect with Max for instance, that you're right. The better call was to drop his relationship with Maggie because he eventually lost her.
I do think that how you characterize these male characters as 'dehumanizing' their SO is an interesting take, it's one that has been made about cuckolding or hotwifing in general. That whoring out your wife is mostly male-centric. That's the extreme version I suppose. But there's other perspectives, that of the belief that it's actually quite a sacrifice of male privilege to let one's wife sleep around, especially when it's a male of their choosing. For all the complexities of their emotional reaction to watching their SO sleep with other men, more on that later, one of the most common threads is the concept that they love their SO so much that they want to see them in ecstasy. It can be argued, as KT alludes to with Tommy's character in Happy Endings, that the experience that can be had with wifesharing in a relationship can be enlightening, dare I say, transcending or self-actualizing. There needs to be a lot in the relationship in order for that to happen, but ending a commitment to monogamy doesn't have to be a sign of disrespect for everyone involved, particularly in the KT universe.
One word on the emotional complexity of wifesharing. It's important in these stories that everyone involved have a complicated relationship with the concept of wifesharing. The sexual arousal is just one of those feelings. We can talk about how central it is to each of these stories, but it's not all there is. There's also deep biological drives that know no relationship, and make us more animal than humans that marry people. There are realities that can't be ignored, like the one that makes men like Cole more desirable than Max, all other things being equal at least. Or the reality that Taylor has only ever known one relationship and she wants to spread her wings away from home. These men and women love each other, and just as we might sacrifice an arm that falls asleep when our girls rest on them, take that to it's logical conclusion, what about seeing them happy sleeping on someone else's?
It's complicated as fuck, but you see the challenge here, and not every person is equipped to handle all the problems that arise when we listen to one part of ourselves to the detriment of another. But we know there's a benefit for us doing it or else why would we? So you listen to that part of your brain that says "you're hurting him" because the part of your brain that says, "I'll always love him" or "God this feels great, and besides he said he wanted it" until he's ripping his ring to you off your finger.
Inevitable editing follow-ups - up above, I said wifesharing is an example of giving up male privilege 'especially if it's a male of their choosing' I mean of the girl's choosing, key distinction there!
The question you raise as to whether cuckold/hotwife stories are misogynist or feminist, male-dominant or female-dominant, is interesting. I think part of the answer may depend on the reader's attitudes and perspective. Personally, I'm a sexually submissive guy, which is how I came to discover and enjoy the genre in the first place. I get off on the husband's/fiance's/boyfriend's position of being sexually secondary, of being implicitly or explicitly inadequate. And I get off on the heroines (and I do think of them that way) indulging their needs and desires "selfishly," at the expense of their SO's. That is why I've said in some previous posts that I never blame or condemn the women in these stories -- in my mind, it's a beautiful and appropriate (not to mention fuckhot) thing for them to take their pleasure as they will, and for their men to just have to deal.
I'm sure there are some who would still find the above misogynist or dehumanizing -- that I'm painting a picture of a submissive's fantasy object, not of a real person. And I suspect it's not the way KT would prefer her stories read; she works very hard and with tremendous skill to create emotionally and morally complex characters, and I imagine she wants me to dislike her women sometimes, or at least to be disgusted or disturbed or dismayed by their actions. And I am, on some level -- those aspects are why I admire her work above any other writer in the genre -- but there's another part of me that's just more masochistically thrilled the further they go.
@WA - Here I go again, I am once again having to edit my post about the topic of responding to your post. I once again realized I was reacting to a characterization of your post rather than what was exactly your point. The consequence of reading it and coming back later, I guess. Your biggest objection of all is the dishonesty displayed by Maggie and Taylor. Whatever rules are established, breaking them is the ultimate sign of disrespect, regardless of the type of relationship the characters are in.
To that I think we will never have full agreement, I'm realizing. I think we actually agree with the post i responded with this morning and rereading what you said (again). The reason I don't think we can fully agree is that I am not ironclad on the rules or even the spirit of the rules. Not to say you necessarily are, but I think that I must clearly be more retroactively forgiving of these female characters, and the reasons for that are those things that I mention above about the complexities that transcend any relationship, and those that come from not everyone being able to handle situations as cleanly as possible, especially when they're young.
Doesn't make anything any less wrong, by the way, just that why it happens can be more complicated and if the male character is true to himself, if he wants his SO to be truly happy, maybe being bitter about the betrayal to the point of cutting them out entirely is not the best way of improving himself or the relationship he wants. It's not necessarily clear in those instances if breaking up is the solution. And if it is the best solution, it isn't clear we can truly blame the failures of the relationship entirely on the male or female characters in the story, or if we just need to blame how the world/humanity works in general.
For me, it's intrinsic that a deep level of love and trust exists before a person can explore these types of things and I think they're wonderful, beautiful things to explore.
Where we venture off in our opinions (which is fine by the way I'm not trying to convince you, just explain myself) is the path towards that exploration. To me, it's sufficiently complicated enough that I don't believe it should be forced on somebody. It's a very complicated thing that everyone experiences uniquely that I think requires a great deal of mental preparation. It has a massive impact on the mind and body that's severe enough for me that forcing it becomes as offensive as rape or assault.
And yeah, you're right, there's no way we actually come to some kind of middle ground because clearly the dynamic of cuckolding and wife-sharing is more complex than staying within established boundaries when those things only exist because we've discovered parts of ourselves that are at odds with the those boundaries. So as we test our limits in the ways that Taylor and the other girls do in these stories, we find the ways that make us unique. Ways we *know* about ourselves so absolutely that to try to explain it seems silly. But it's not at all. We all just have uniquely different definitions of what ok looks like.
I feel like I need to further clarify my points earlier about what I find de-humanizing. It's not cuckolding/wife-sharing.
I hold Taylor accountable for her actions. I don't believe that any form of sexual enlightenment on Harrison's part absolves her. You can find examples of this at locations 3252, 3284, 3326 and especially 3343 and 3385. In my notes, I called this the magical cuckold force meddling with human affairs. What I find de-humanizing is when those things redefine a person's principles so drastically that things that they found extremely offensive just hours earlier are disregarded. 4,000 words of Harrison's intense paranoia as he searches from room to room, swims the length of a lake in the dark, lurks around the docks like a sea monster, assaults a girl that might be a stranger just so he can know the truth. And it *was* intense. I even noted that I was concerned for Taylor in their relationship because it freaked me out how paranoid he was.
For me, those two events don't negate each other, they can't. Harrison's transcendence, to go from that person swimming across the lake to the person fucking Kelsey fucking Kay, was god-like. It disregards his earlier standing on morality and oversimplifies the real transformation that a person would go through. That's what I find de-humanizing, not cuckolding/wife-sharing in general.
This got a lot more wordy than I hoped it would be, I'm sorry about that. I really like the story and I'm ok with what happened because it's just a story. It's a lot more erotic if everything happens at the lake house and I get that.
A word on 'Cuckold meddling' - I think the important thing to note about this occurrence in these stories is that there is a residual meaning that needs to be confronted by the main male character. You're focused on the aspect that says, "This is not going to lead to anything good, turn back now!" while there's a reason that the male characters are feeling the way they do worth exploring to figure out its utility.
I think it's fair to say we all have a default position of monogamy when it comes to dating anyone. So right off the bat, if anyone violates monogamy rules the pact has been ruined and the violator should be shamed. What if you liked it a little, though? What does that say? Was it really a violation if you kind of want it to happen again? What if she loves you and just couldn't bring herself to let on what she was feeling because she knew she was going to be a violator, but you really believe that she does in fact love you?
Maybe it isn't so wrong afterall and this can be your new normal. Maybe the book on relationships has been wrong for centuries because of an imposed moral system of family that took us out of the fundamental socio-cultural dynamic that defined our ancestors' lives centuries ago and our minds haven't evolved to catch up with our current moral prescriptions.
Or maybe the intuition was right and you should have trusted your gut.
I think KT has an obsession with this crossroads, and I love her for it. We've seen it result in many different adventures, with different results.
I feel like I'm having deja vu talking about all this, so I hope when I said it in the past it didnt sound as interesting as this time around.
I always enjoy having this discussion. It's even more than just a crossroads, because it's not even just monogamy vs polygamy. It's also a combination of good feelings and bad feelings, and whether or not those combinations are satisfactory for an individual person who has to decide for him/herself if it's worth it. Our moral prescriptions are constantly evolving so I think it's futile to try to define a book of relationships. So then I look to the individual for permission instead..
And Harrison never had a choice, which is the violation here. Not that she sleeps with other people but that she forced it on him. And to me, that violation alone, moral ambiguity aside, would not create the sudden urgency to revive the relationship and immediately fall in line even as Harrison comes to terms with your kind of enlightened thinking. Enter into the equation the 4,000 words of intense panic caused by exactly what he feared and I call a foul. It just happened way too fast for me.
First, I'm definitely not enlightened, I hope you weren't taking a jab at my opinion there, because honestly I am in "actual real life" a lot like you when it comes to relationships.
But I do think that a major fundamental issue that exists in these stories is, what if we've been living a lie socially our entire lives and it all of a sudden hits these characters in the face that they want to live a different life? The problem for them is there are very little amount of resources available to them to learn how to navigate this subject in a society of monogamy. So maybe the subject never gets broached, just forget you even had the thought. Then Colt walks in, and all the thoughts you knew you had to finally bring up are rushing through until you just have to act on them.
Now it's out there, and the dialogue that didnt exist because there didnt seem to be a clean path for you has to be had. It cant be ignored. I hate platitudes but maybe it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission?
I just think it's more realistic that the subject of sleeping with other people come from a disaster like this. Having it come organically as a result of some sort of dialogue or agreement seems to be more difficult to imagine.
Doesn't make it right, but maybe the problem is that these thoughts of infidelity have no cultural pathway from which to grapple with and embrace its merits, it's just knee jerk denied because it's so wrong. So when people inevitably have these thoughts, people go crazy because they're SOL.
I really hope this doesn't offend anyone, but I imagine there are people who are homosexual that could relate to the problems that are caused when natural urges are repressed because of a fear of cultural sanction.
100% wasn't a jab. Typing out that sentence the way I started it, I just couldn't think of a better way to write what I wanted to without typing 'cuckold magic' again. You are enlightened because you understand concepts that most people aren't capable of understanding.
It very well might require a disaster like this for Harrison to learn that he would be living a more enriched life having had it happen. I can see that. He almost certainly *will* come to that conclusion because otherwise the story would be over.
Taylor is the one that failed to trace beyond society's dotted lines because she assumed Harrison would be vehemently apposed to sharing her and actually planned to break up with him even though in her heart of hearts she didn't want to. So instead, she forces it on him. With or without a cultural pathway in place, this is not ok. For the same reason it's not okay to rape someone even though they might like it. To hell with culture, forge your own path, one that doesn't risk life-long damage. And Harrison coming to terms with this thing being forced on him so quickly and easily, even if it was the best thing in the world that could have happened, is what I find unsettling.
That's where I'm coming from ..and that took a very long time to relate into words. I would love to see it as a topic in these books.
By the way, I missed the memo that we weren't supposed to be masturbating to these stories. I have an inverted relationship between that act and what types of books are meant to be masturbated to that constitute her catalog, apparently ...
I did have to put several of KT's books down for days. Not always because I was upset but also because I felt a certain excitement mounting and wanted to wait for that special moment to read it. I wonder if I am the only one who feels this way? I often go back to read them more as well.
Certainly not days, usually the only obstacle for me reading a KT story is when I absolutely do not have time to. The worst experience for me was the infamous 1am release of Recovering Maggie, I powered haphazardly through reading that with heavy lids and could not reread it with the proper amount of attention it needed for a few days. It is something where I attempt to exercise delayed gratification, but if a story is out, it's gon' get read ... now!!
It is hard lately though because the normal rhythm of reading a KT story has changed with her decreasing ability to write around 100 pages. It's becoming ever the greater time commitment. ;)
Yea when I get a notice of a new KT story. It zips right to the top of my priority list. For me KT's stories aren't fap material as it is being a spectator to someone else's life. I get emotionally attached to characters. Which then allows me a voyeuristic view of the story.. also I'm still considering these stories therapeutic and KT my therapist (really KT you should charge more per hour).
And finally, just for fun because you said the following rules were established, and it might help illustrate my point. The following are realities unique to the situation that make following these rules more complicated that just simply following what was verbally agreed too.
First WA's rules for context - 1. Condoms with everyone but Harrison (location 3564) 2. Their 'open relationship' closes off when they aren't separated (location 3815) 3. Harrison wants to know who she sleeps with and what happens. Can't seem to find the location, but I know they talked about it at some point. Probably some lenience here.
Now for the hard truths - 1. Colt was a different type of experience that Harrison could not give Taylor and the other people involved in this inevitably come with their own agendas, which might lead to violations in Harrison and Taylor's rulebook. 2. And more importantly, Harrison and Taylor are inexperienced and each other's only sexual relationship, it isn't strange that they explore others and learn what they like, and that sometimes they might need to bend what they don't like because they learn more about themselves and their SO. 3. Taylor did not know Stevie or Colt were going to be at the party, and the willingness for her to explore probably became too overwhelming that it changed her time frame, "Maybe I should start doing this now?" In her words - "I was compelled to them."
Still bothers me that kelsie and Taylor's "plan" was to break up with Harry..(did she intend to use the extracurricular sex as the point of no return?) After a couple of conversations where the issue was pushed "are we done?" Even when he had enough and would have bolted had the road been open. She convinces him to stay. Outwardly, this was pretty shitty thing to do. Inwardly the struggle she had with the break up must have been emotionally traumatic. The sex with colt or stevie may be the distraction tactic used for self defense. Orgasms are better than dealing with difficult emotions or people. It hurt both ways. But at least in the moment it wasn't painful but pleasurable. Do it enough times could become a pavlov reaction. Excessively stressful situation ahead ....do what ever needs be done to achieve orgasms as often as possible to survive the stress event. I'm pretty sure I stretched something and may have pulled a brain cell coming to this point so gonna take it easy for awhile and hope Reza comes out sooner than later.
I guess I don't understand why you feel like your hard truths surpass the importance of trust and honesty in a relationship. I hope I'm not misreading your meaning. Different experiences are important to have but not at the cost of trust. Without it, a relationship can't succeed. I want Taylor to experience everything she wants to I believe she can if she is honest and upfront because Harrison's experiences matter too. It's the pact she made when she committed herself to a relationship with Harrison and my terms are unconditional. I'm sorry I'm not more open-minded but this is just my limit.
Maybe you're saying the urge to have these experiences is uncontrollable, like the urge to smoke a cigarette or scratch an itch. I would reject that completely from a narrow point of view that's biased and based entirely on my own experiences. I'd have nothing to offer you there.
@John
I thought that was weird, too. Taylor knew breaking up was the reasonable thing to do but chickened out because of her love for Harrison. And when confronted with the truth that having both things in her life would create conflict, she snagged both anyway. She's just very childish in that way. You might be onto something with the pleasure masking her pain idea but the onset of everything happening at the same time would make me think otherwise given Harrison's less than stellar track record.
Kelsey is orchestrating something and I'm not sure what it is. I think she has the biggest impact on Taylor's decision making. The only bread crumbs I gathered were related to water ski competitions, Mr. Brooks, and the bullying incident. I don't know how they're related. Also in the scene where Taylor and Kelsey are kissing, I got the feeling that it was being intentionally described in such a way that it could be interpreted as their first kiss but not necessarily. So I wonder about them.
WA - I realize now that you may not have read that I agree with the idea that Taylor fucked up royally, that was all stuff in the previous blog post. She ruined her opportunity to get Harrison to at least know what her actions were likely going to be by not even trying to apply to State, by going on the pill, by planning her big event with Kelsey, Brady, and Harrison (and subsequently Stevie and Colt). Then when she got caught being flirty with Colt, instead of saying, "you caught me" she had the lady balls to get mad at Harrison when he suggests breaking up with her as if she wasn't planning on doing that very thing later on.
I guess part of what I'm saying is not everyone is so easy to pin down (in a personality sense, weirdos!) and relationships aren't always built the same nor is the way they are maintained always the same. Taylor did nothing to get Harrison prepared for the realizations she had and it led to a major challenge in the relationship. Now that all of the cards are on the table and the reasons for the indiscretions are out in the open, however shitty it came to be known, it's time for their next phase. That was Harrisons choice too, as you mention.
Can they really know what to expect though? Is it as easy as saying, "he should always wear a condom?" or "You cant sleep with Kelsey ever again," Maybe for infallible people, but bareback was a powerful experience for Taylor (probably mostly because of Harrison being the man with her at the time) and having sex with a good friend is deeply emotional. We can say out loud that you can't cross the road because it says, "dont walk" but what if no cars are coming and you really need to get to the other side?
Ultimately you're right, I just have a knee jerk reaction to anything that I perceive to be too simplistic.
And yeah, I do think some things that drive us are beyond our control and high minded concepts like modern relationships dont exist in a vacuum, it's always subject to human fallibility. And for me, if I understand the context for people's decisions, I am probably very forgiving when evaluating its component parts.
WA - Hmm now that I think about it, I realize that all the rules you remembered pertain to what Taylor needs to do, and not Harrison's rules, you didnt mention the Kelsey rule.
Then when she got caught being flirty with Colt, instead of saying, "you caught me" she had the lady balls to get mad at Harrison when he suggests breaking up with her as if she wasn't planning on doing that very thing later on. Found this interesting 2b2h...its ok for her to break with him but not him with her...rejection issues much??
With Taylor we have a very complex character where I think she doesn't know what she wants and is going to be torn in much of the series. I don't think we'll be seeing the last of our frustrations with her and Harrisons apparent acceptance till he grows up some and realizes that there is no changing her. I'm still convinced that their relationship will deepen despite things and they'll still love each other despite everything.
I don't really think it's hopeless. I would say the juice isn't worth the squeeze but if that's what Harrison really wants.. He's already gone this far.
Why? Taylor fucked up a major decision in her life, but what about the three years and years more of friendship? I would think that history factors a lot in his decision.
I think the river that runs through Harry and Ta-Ta's life is a lot deeper than we give credit. It would be one of the key reasons why she couldn't cope with his leaving or deal with having to actually break up. Love will keep them together (thanks cap'n an Tenille). How much shit will harry have to deal with who knows. Will it be too much even with Hope on the side. And for those who know not C&T...
Whatever they become will be transformed into something where honesty is no longer assumed and trust is no longer given freely. So I'm crossing my fingers that they stay friends for both their sakes. But if Harrison can come to terms with that then there's Hope.
@2b2h The idea that their time spent together should mean something to Harrison going forward sucks. It's a bad idea to commit to a relationship with great potential for resentment because of a time investment. It's the sunk cost fallacy and Taylor already understands that.
The whole weekend seemed schemey too me. Taylor planned to break up with Harrison She planned with Kelsie to fuck Brady(was she planning on being broke up with Harrison by then?) Kelsie planned to break up with Bradley. (Was that really because Taylor wanted a three/four way and once shared he would have no value anymore. ) Colt planned on banging Taylor. Stevie probably didn't plan it in advance but it became one of those short notice spur of the moment plan to get Taylor alone. Seems everyone had an angle except the guitar man...or did he??? Dun dun duuunnnn...
WA - I'm not sure you're viewing my perspective well on that at all. I think that a person isn't defined by one obviously terrible decision, and that's only made clear by history ... It's easy to judge Taylor in this story because we literally only have this one moment in time to define her and almost none of her perspective. That and we're reading a KT story of course, so I'll probably look terrible based on Taylor's future behavior, but the decision now to keep with Taylor isnt necessarily a bad one.
So to play along, it's just as irrational to stop being invested in something (or someone in this case) that was rewarding historically because of one poor (even disastrous) outcome.
John - it's clear that Taylor and Kelsey had an agenda that predated the summer party, but I think Colt's (and Stevie too probably) conspiracy is a general plan to sleep with anyone attractive that's giving him the time of day, and he seems like the type that not being given the time of day will stop him there either.
Hmm maybe Colt was looking forward to the party though because he knew Taylor would be there and "this time I'm going for it."
No..I am viewing your perspective, we just have different standards for what we expect of people. It was one "decision" but it was a carefully orchestrated plan sprinkled with dozens of lies. I think it's a massive misrepresentation to describe what Taylor did as a single moment of terrible decision-making instead of the huge betrayal that it actually was.
When that type of thing happens, it only takes one time to put into question everything you understand about a person. Anything they say is scrutinized. Maybe you're capable of rebuilding that bridge of trust with someone but I'm not and it's a bad feeling when in crumbles.
This is so fruitless too...we all know Taylor's not done fucking up Harrison permanently. These stories can be worse than torture sometimes.. Noooo don't drive off the cliff, stop! NO NOT AGAIN! WHAT ARE YOU DOING?? AND AGAIN?!
WA - I guess thats fair to say I have different expectation of people, I dont like to think so. I mean I agree with everything you say here, really. I think you can find distinctions in what has happened and say they were multiple violations. And maybe I am diminishing the power of what shes done, or ignoring how it can effect trust, forever.
I do think that for however orchestrated the plan to end things with Harrison was, it wasnt until she was finally forced to acknowledge what she was doing was harmful to Harrison, that what she was doing wrong seemed to have any impact on her. Any of the violations or lies by omission that Taylor committed surrounded this event she ignored it until she couldn't any longer. She chickened out because breaking up is hard. Now the tears she should have been shedding months before she hurt Harrison's feelings in this story terribly have been shed, and we can see where things go from here.
Maybe it's just better to not acknowledge the elephant in the room that this is a KT story, and think about what's next, haha.
Nothing seems to bring into question my own rule of ethics like a KT story. And they don't matter to anyone but me but I can't help myself but talk about them anyway. Because in the story, the only thing that matters is if Harrison can absorb the blow and accept a new type of lifestyle.
Which I'm not convinced of yet. Everything just happened too fast. I think he was in panic mode, frightened of the sudden changes, and did and said a lot of things that might not be intrinsic to who he is. A quote I really like is "You can't love someone if you don't know them."
So... maybe that's where the next story goes. Harrison trudges along with this internal dialogue as Taylor does whatever she wants and we get that juicy angst until the affection fades away and with it the angst. And maybe that leads to other things..like other people who are more nearby..
Would it be wrong to want a prequel short. When where and why she decided not to go to Harry's school and break up with him and plan the multi-partner sexcapdes. And who influenced these decisions. It would be cuck gravy to find out she and colt had been texting(sexting?) about it.
I absolutely cosign this, maybe stick it in Open Hearts, Open Minds? I mean, she didnt apply to State, meaning she was thinking about a life after Harrison as early as the winter semester. That means Christmas she exchanged gifts with this on her mind. Valentine's Day, Senior prom ...
Glaucon's gender swap scenarios had me in tears. So funny! I'm imagining another one right now:
Our happy young people are having a conversation on the beach. Connie, KC's friend from college, is having a conversation with Harrison about a local legend on Highway 17. Legend has it that the old highway is haunted by ghost and she's seen it! Taylor is nearby, poking at her hamburger that's covered in sand because Harrison dropped it. She silently observes her handsome boyfriend as he stands near the beautiful blond vixen.
"Let's make a bet that the ghost is real," Connie says with a smirk.
"Oh, please.." Harrison says, shifting the bulge in his pants so it's plainly visible. He looks over his right shoulder to look beyond the lake as he pretends to scratch his head with his right arm. He tenses the muscles in his bicep and puts on a little show.
Connie's eyes widen as she stares silently. Eventually Harrison puts his arm down, breaking her trance and she says "loser has to streak across the beach!"
Harrison mulls it over in his mind for a few moments as Connie leans towards him. Her slender fingers glide across the exposed skin of her chest as she openly stares at the impressive bulge, now within arm's reach.
"In front of our friends? I don't think so," Harrison answers.
"Nothing they haven't seen," she said smugly, her attention on his junk uninterrupted.
"Gross. Not my friends. Well, maybe when I was like, eight.."
"Ahh, don't be embarrassed," Connie teased. "You're already almost naked, what's a little bit more matter?"
"Easy for you to say," Harrison responds. He looks over the lake again, his expression blank. "Aren't you supposed to have a super tight, juicy pussy?"
I was thinking of something just now, hopefully you guys can help me make sense of it. So Harrison jizzes his pants without touching his dick because the scene of Taylor and Colt was so erotic. That seems to happen to frequently in these stories. Am I missing something and jizzing your pants is quite common in these scenarios or is it mostly just fan-service? If it's the latter then who's it for??
It's a tough one...only thing I can say is for myself I've been over excited before and jizzed before the blood finished rushing in..so it was a soft ejack. Very rare but happens .
I just finished my reread and have an alternate theory which I feel is reasonably well supported by the text though some parts are less supported than others. I started writing a justification for it, but it was turning into essay length with supporting quotes and explanations and I don't have time to finish it at the moment.
The Too Long, Didn't Write explanation: Trish was cuckolding Taylor's father on a pretty significant level for years and the kids knew about it. The Brooks children all responded in different ways. -KC sees a man who lets it happen as weak (see the insult about the father in the corner masturbating in chapter 26), hates any man who would take part in it (explains his reaction to Colt with his sister), and doesn't want Taylor to follow in the family path. (“Don't turn into mom”, ) -Riley was hypersexualized which resulted in her having sex at an early age (discovered flushed condom) and continued later on. -Taylor was hypersexualized as well, but her perspective on what constitutes a normal and healthy relationship was warped by the failed model of her parents. Combine that with the blow up over Riley's boyfriend's flushed condom and Taylor was both sexually active from a young age (before the 16-17 at which she claims to have lost her virginity to Harrison) and against condoms because she saw the blow up over the discovered Riley condom. She got pregnant and had an abortion.
There are flaws to the theory. I'm basing it largely off unconnected thoughts of Taylor. She says and thinks things that contradict it. I say she's a liar to Harrison and others (we know that) and to herself (not a good one). She's inconsistently ignorant and knowledgeable and acts like she wants something and is at other times completely unaware of it. The serial lying covers part of that. Her conflicting desire to dump and not dump Harrison covers part of it.
On another note, I really hope Taylor wasn't lying about going on birth control and that her calling Harrison Daddy in the bathroom was comparing him to her cuckold father rather than saying he's going to be a father. (Colt would be the father if she's pregnant because plot) There are reasons to think that it is possible (how she told Harrison about going on birth control, the agreement to only have sex with him without condoms, the onesie, the crazy uterus thoughts) though I can't imagine why she'd think it was a good idea at this point in their lives.
Unlucky - I like a lot of deep thought in these stories, but you're not making sense.
Heavily cuckolded and the kids knew about it? Failed parenting? Hypersexualized youth? You are making so many leaps in logic and they're unsubstantiated and overly dramatic. How is cuckolding corroborated in location 4596, where Taylor describes emotional infidelity at worst that's blame squared (potentially) on both parents' shoulders. An emotional relationship is not physical, and it was potentially both ways. These kids aren't depraved sociopaths here, mom and dad might have had their own struggles but I doubt they weren't parenting as good as any parent can. How these kids conducted themselves read as nothing more than normal teenage rebelliousness with no adult supervision, which is fine because they're all adults anyways. Certainly not nymphomania.
Flushed condom = abortion? That's a huge leap! Is it possible that there was just a huge argument about having sex too young? Like every parent would have with their child?
Unlucky - One correction I need to make, i assumed you said "failed parenting" when you actually said "failed model from their parents" of relationships. And actually, that is about the only thing I might get on board with, but I think that's only because they're too young to know how mom and dad probably tried to make it work.
Do you think that Taylor would really tell Harrison that their parents broke up because her mom was cucking her dad who eventually got tired of it and had his own affair? (physical or just emotional) That would explain the situation as we know it and has parallels to Taylor and Harrison's situation with her not being ok with him having sex with others.
Maybe I'm making too far of a leap, but Taylor repeatedly thinks she's an awful, awful, awful person plus she has bizarre views of herself, sexuality, and pregnancy. That's not a normal level or flavor of crazy. That's what happens when something happens at a young age. I initially thought abuse for that reason. Getting pregnant at 12 or 13 then having an abortion could be another. I also considered that maybe she said something which revealed the father's affair which caused the parents to split, but I don't know if that is significant enough, especially since she'd have had years to intellectually understand that it wasn't her fault.
Location 1420. It would have had to been the summer of 2015. That's when it all went down with her dad. Personally I think whatever caused her dad to split was more concerning than either an abortion or a failed marriage. All the flashbacks of happy memories, so mysterious.
"Four lovers" movie for the wife swap and cuck fans . Its French so you French Canadian types it'll be easier than having to read the subs....this one I found to be pretty realistic with the feelings and such..
I had an epiphany today, and I have homeboy WA to thank for helping me piece it together. It involves that key note that he mentions about the Summer of 2015 being the start of Taylor's family troubles. I think it's at this crucial moment that changed how Taylor viewed Harrison, and it may hold the key to understanding how truly sustainable Taylor's romantic relationship with him is.
Something happened that Summer that caused a rift in Taylor's family at the top, and my theory now is that instability caused by the emotional loss of her father, might have caused Taylor to start clinging to Harrison a little closer. The length of Harrison and Taylor's romantic relationship has me thinking that it was this moment in time that changed how Taylor viewed Harrison, from friend to lover. She might have needed someone desperately to be a rock for her, to help her through the tumultuous time that a divorce would cause. And guess who was there? The man who would keep Taylor on the straight and narrow, Harrison. Now all the little side comment jokes calling him Dad make sense. To Taylor, she's joking, but in reality that was Harrison's appeal to her in this time in her life. She needed a rock, a man in her life, and that is who he was.
The question is now, as she has grown and is becoming more independent and the pain that is the loss of that stability of her father starts to become ingrained in her and she gets 'over it' as well as anyone can, will she need that type of figure in her life in a romantic sense, or was that just a childish clingy obsession, and she'll grow to realize she needs something different in her man.
I'm realizing quickly that I've once again boxed myself in with a Oedipal complex type position. I'd like, rather, to say that what Taylor needed wasn't a father figure, but a constant, stable, positive male presence. I don't know if you can fully disentangle the Oedipusness of that position either, but I think it's a key distinction.
It makes sense but what doesn't is why Mr. Brooks would just leave forever like he did. Idk, maybe I expect more from a character from a KT Morrison novel than I should, but from the flashbacks he didn't seem like the kind of father that would just suddenly leave his children without a father figure.
There's a secret there and I can't connect the dots. Location 4331 talks about weird bullying that went on in 2013..idk maybe it has something to do with that. Why even bring up the thought unless it had some significance? Maybe Kelsey and Taylor were up to something and daddy caught wind of it a few years later. Who knows?
Is it that conclusive that he was completely MIA for them? I dont think that Taylor's dad completely abandoned them, but I imagine the complexities of divorce shook the family dynamics such that every family tradition (like water skiing and singing Don McLean by the fire) became less frequent or tainted. And I imagine his absence is either the terms of the divorce or his emotional immaturity that he can't put aside for his kids because of the painful thoughts they bring to mind by association. Who knows ... we'll find out.
Maybe a reason Taylor doesn't want to go to State is she'd be even closer to her dad, and that freaks her out?
That could be 2b2h at a subliminal level. She may have thought about going with Harrison and experienced some type of anxiety about it not really knowing why.
I just want the next reza book...cuz this one will make me go blind or lose my mind thinking about it.
It's entirely possible that I'm creating a narrative that isn't there. It was an ugly divorce and maybe his absence is a result of terrible memories re-surfacing. Maybe he's not absent at all and the Brooks kids see him all the time and it's just not mentioned.. It's just a gut feeling, really, that I think he's not in their lives anymore.
It just seems to me that a person who would drive a boat from sunrise to sunset so a bunch of kids could have a good time would want to keep doing that. So I feel really bad for him..
And I'm basing those feelings entirely off of the assumption that Mrs. Brooks was the unfaithful one because she quickly sought a replacement and because Harrison called her a MILF. I don't even know if it's true! I need more!
It is possible that the Brooks children aren't actually children of Mr. Brooks. They could be products of one or more affairs or children from a relationship prior to their meeting. In either case, he would have raised them as his children but he might not actually have any visitation rights.
Whoa. Unlucky7 that might be gold you're digging thar. Could be in the heat of an arguement the milf let fly that his children weren't his. Subsequent testing and the betrayal was too much to handle ....seeing the kids not his own too much to handle... he bows out to preserve what little sanity he has left... Alternate universe: The mr tells the missus he got her drunk and knocked up by someone. The kids aren't his and she gives him the boot.. Yet another alt uni: They both were swinging she gets knocked up by another. Either she lies or didn't tell him she was off her pill. He thinks baby is his all along until by accident he discovers there not related..
This is a multi-verse so possibilities are quite plentiful.
Dad's name isn't Mike and mom's name isn't jen by chance anybody recall a first name? Helluva crossover it would be.
Yeah, Unlucky I want to apologize, I shit all over your opinions like a two year old learning there's the concept of ...*gasp* sharing ...
I still think you reached a lot but you even said as much. I also think that you are expecting a much more extreme story than the one KT is willing to tell. She never roots her character's motivations in mental disorders or trauma.
The concept of cuckolding between mom and dad Brooks is an understandable position now that I think about it more, and the concept of the 3 of the Brooks children not even being blood family is also really fucking interesting.
Idk WA he might be happier now and maybe with kids that he has no question about their lineage. Ok glass half full. Having been there...shit happens and you move on. Sucks that he isn't involved that we know of. But this isn't a story about the ms or mr, as fun as it is to speculate about them. This is about (striking my captain obvious pose). Taylor and Harrison. I don't expect to read anymore about mom and pop, unless taylor reveals something to Harrison or OMG she tells one of her lovers(colt) who then, "...Harrison she didn't tell you about this? Wow!? It so personal and shocking! That she shared it only with me? I must be something special to her huh?" As he snickers at Harrison and walks away .
It's relevant to Taylor's behavior. If we don't read more about him then I'd assume creative choices were made to spare the readers..I think it's too relevant for that, though. I'm super happy to hear you were able to move on and there's hope for Mr. Brooks. I can 100% see that hypothetical situation you described happening.
Yea the age old adage ..."time heals all" works for reals. Back story on mom and pops would be a story in itself...just don't see alot of cheddar in it. I'm less concerned about the why of her behavior as I am about what she gonna do next and how is Harrison gonna deal with it.
I think we have come to that personal choice crossroads. Which is the difference between us. I'm cool with that too. You wanna know what took place I don't care so much about this one. In Maggie the parents were quite a bit involved in the plot i just don't see that in this one...if KT includes them I'm gonna love reading about it though.
I'm eager to see Harrison and Taylor more than a ton of backstory about Taylor's parents. It would be better to do it separately in my opinion. Maybe it comes in hindsight or something.
I'm with you guys -- I want to read about about Taylor and Harrison. Just a little bit, like a sentence, would satisfy my curiosity because then I can think about how his circumstances impacted Taylor's life so I can get a bigger picture of who Taylor is. Not asking for a backstory here.
I get you.. I'm very curious about why mom ditched the gathering in favor of.....what? The last hurrah before colledge same as a sweet sixteen type event in my eyes. But than again if she had we might have read about mom and colt.. Imagine KC...." Moooooom?!?!?." As he ties an anchor to colts limp body throws him on the boat. "We're not done talking about this...I'll be right back!!"
Colt to Taylor: You went for a Kiss song, and it wasn't Love Gun? It was practically written for Colt and Taylor. It's like his internal dialogue, ha ha.
Taylor to Harrison: there seems to be a real Burt Reynolds theme going her in the last few months. I made a Hooper ref in the comments a while back, used a Hooper gif for HE, then the guy dies, now this song? (Too lazy to google: didn't he do a movie called Hot Stuff and this song was in it?)
I Want You by Savage Garden is such a great song for Kelsey/Harrison. Used to love this song, it's been a long time.
Conversation has a time and place in the interaction Of a lover and a mate but the time of talking Using symbols, using words can be likened To a deep sea diver who is swimming with a raincoat Come stand a little bit closer Breathe in and get a bit higher You'll never know what hit you when I get to you
I really likes this line from savage garden and I think it maybe appropriate for hay and Kelsie... "Ooh I want you, I don't know if I need you but Ooh I'd die to find out"
Here's a song I first heard like 8 years ago on a show called Chuck that was on NBC for a long time. Cool show, song is cool too, it's called Young Blood by The Naked and Famous:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YuSg4mts9E
Surprised I didn't think of it during Maggie conversations, must have been the perms or something
If, say, I would consider releasing this book on (Patreon) with a probably weekly chapter, is that something that would sound appealing? The alternative is waiting till I have about 50k before publishing. And that 50k is more likely 80k.
By "this book," I assume you mean the "Separate Schools" sequel? If so, I suspect many of your more electronically oriented readers (meaning, everybody but old eccentric me) would love weekly chapters. For myself, I would hope only that a paperback compilation would follow closely on completion of the installments.
I'm not a fan of the weekly drips and drabs I prefer to get lump sums. But thats just me. I'd blow through a chapter in minutes and be desperate for the rest of the week...plus I think we'd blow a hole in the blog-o-sphere, commenting on every chapter.. JMO
About the same as being a freshman in high school who gets a surprise kiss from the hot chick then has to go to gym class and change into PT gear with a raging hard on..."coach can I take my shower before calisthenics...pleeease?" (Yea I said calisthenics. .. you younglings can Google it.)
In the previous thread, Unlucky & wrote:
ReplyDeleteA man isn't solely responsible for a woman's pleasure. If a woman doesn't give feedback to a man, especially an inexperienced one, about what works and doesn't work for her, she's just as culpable for her lack of orgasms. But as far as Harrison knows, Taylor is just a sexually inexperienced as he is (I'm convinced she isn't but there is contradictory evidence on that and I aborted my reread) and women are traditionally more sexually closed off (Thanks, Puritan heritage!), so he would try to take the lead. That he hasn't accomplished it once in ~25 months of sexual activity however limited despite being cognizant and probably unhappy about it is an indictment of his prowess.
That she immediately has amazing sexual experiences with 3 other men despite them being self-centered pricks who all things being equal should carry that selfishness over into bed and thus be shit no matter their relative experience is absolutely playing to a trope. That is compounded by Harrison's feelings of inadequacy. He might consider himself more responsible and thus more adult, but he specifically notes how they are MEN, not guys/boys.
Harrison and Taylor have all kinds of other obstacles including some of their own making. I don't see why Harrison being sexually inadequate is a necessary one, especially since that's fairly low in terms of causes of female infidelity, even among younger individuals. If he gets better over time and is thus able to better satisfy Taylor, someone could say that her infidelity was at least in part a good thing because he wouldn't have changed without an impetus to change.
I respect that you take pride in your works, but not everything is going to be for everyone. This story was well written, but I'm not sure I like it and want to follow it. In addition to the aforementioned inadequacy issues which are typically a hard limit for me as a reader, I loathe Taylor, especially since I can't write off her behavior as a product of a mind damaged by horrific abuse, so I don't want Harrison to make it work with her. When Harrison finally learns to respect himself, he's going to realize that friendship and love aren't nearly enough. Relationships are built upon a foundation of respect and we've seen none of that from Taylor at any time in this story so far. Yes, Taylor could grow to be that person, but that just puts him where he should have been after being her best friend for 9+ years. To continue with the building metaphor, that would be fixing the foundation, but wouldn't solve the fact that the house is still unlivable due to toxic black mold.
I'm sure I'll like something else you've written better and maybe that will inspire me to give this a second chance. I've gone from hating to loving books before. The Blithedale Romance as I noted in my first post is one of those.
You're still treating supposition as fact: Harrison and Taylor's sex life is complicated, and I hate to give away spoilers (don't read!) but I need to defend Harrison. It is not an indictment of Harrison's prowess at all. What if I told you were he to tumble into bed with someone else he would knock her socks off...? Once again, I'm saying Taylor is responsible for her O, and how she perceives her relationship will determine that. What you supposed--sexual abuse--may not be the root. There are other ways to be fucked up. I can say them but I hate spoilers. I like to reveal stories a bit at a time. I want people to make wrong assumptions then have their heart soar when they were wrong (or right!) or be crushed when they believed as the character did and now find out things are not that way. I've killed babies and I've killed mothers in these books. My hands are bloody. Like I said, I'd be better in Women's Fiction than erotica I guess. There is a lot more happening than sex.
ReplyDeleteYou will be happiest reading Happy Endings. I would not recommend Maggie or Cherry Blossoms, nor Learning Lessons. They upset me when I wrote them!
Also: you say she had amazing sexual experiences with three other men? Did she? Those are mostly related through Harrison's eyes. You don't know Taylor's truth.
DeleteStevie? They made out and touched each other--hardly amazing. Colt? yeah, that was probably pretty good. Brady? You only have Harrison's perspective, not Taylor's. I write in third-person free indirect discourse. It allows me to lie to you because the character is lying to themselves or seeing more than is there. I think the experience she had with Harrison after Colt was profound and far more valuable than her experience with Colt. Can you see it?
And as far as hating Taylor and not wanting it to work out--that's cool. That's exactly where you should be. That's why it's so complicated. He can't help loving her. Despite being lovers they are also best friends. It's meant to be tough. And it's going to get tougher, I have to be honest. What a dilemma for Harrison. But if he cares for his friend, can he see her through this? Should he? I want you to worry, I want you to not want to read it too, ha ha. Stay away from the Maggie series! You're right though, not everything is for everybody and I hundred percent respect it and your opinion too.
Clarification: when I said "I don't want you to read it" that's the plural you, the royal you. Not you Unlucky 7. You I want to read it if you want. I merely meant I want readers to think about bailing on finishing because the reading is troublesome. I like emails from readers who said they had to put the book down for a few weeks because they were too upset to continue. That's a KT fist pump right there.
DeleteI can't imagine my reaction to the Maggie series wasn't the most severe of all your readers, but it probably wasn't. Real, physical changes in the way I would think for at least two months. I didn't even know I was capable of mental acrobatics like this, given my reactions when my mind revisits the thought of Maggie before I shut it off like swatting a bug. Given your last few sentences I hope you'll take this as a compliment, but I don't think I'll ever re-read Maggie 1-3.
DeleteI admire how you defend your characters, but no amount of creative story-telling can stop the feelings of inadequacy when his significant other is longing for someone else to touch her. It doesn't matter if it was intended or not, it will be interpreted that Harrison was inadequate.
Maybe this other mysterious reason for their problems in the bedroom that you hinted at is the real deal and is game-changing. Couldn't it still be interpreted as Harrison's inadequacy or at least Taylor's presupposed opinion of him lacking in some way to cause her to push him away and be unfaithful? As if he would be unable to overcome it? Surely that's not the case, but of course Harrison would think so!
James Gordon Jr.: Batman? Batman! Why's he running dad?
DeleteLt. James Gordon: Because we have to chase him.
Cop: Okay we're going in! Go, go! Move!
James Gordon Jr.: He didn't do anything wrong.
Lt. James Gordon: Because he's the hero Gotham deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him. Because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian. A watchful protector. A Dark Knight.
alright guys i'm going in
Woman's Fiction??? Well I guess I am a guy who love women's fiction and I'm a lover of erotica which can be SO much more than just sex. Fanny Hill comes to mind.
DeleteI couldn't stop disagreeing with everything Unlucky 7 had to say btw. Just my opinion as I'm sure I've said plenty that many on here have disagreed with. I hope Taylor and Harrison work it out or find each other. Maybe not the same as they wanted it, because it's a better and more complete level than where they were.
Glad to see you back WA! Love the Maggie-thought-swatting...
DeleteI just wanted to say that KT said the word 'toot'
ReplyDelete... I thought that was funny ...
... proceed ...
Aye matey she blew a fine toot thar...
DeleteJohn, TBtH,
DeleteOne of you was fearful that KT’s dedication and hard work would result in a certain phrase creeping into her work-related emails. I think the word “inside” was part of that phrase and it was used repeatedly in Sea Pirate. So, now KT’s autocorrect has that puppy in its memory. Should make for some interesting interoffice communications, KT.
You know, KT, if you could manage a mention by one of the networks in some report on the USSC circus as “highly relevant to the current politically charged atmosphere that surrounds boys high school experiences”, “a searching look at the powerful interplay of hormones, alcohol, and the absence of adult supervision”, etc. you just might be able to quit your day job.
As long as the announcer also said, sort of under their breath: "...and it's, like, reeeallly dirty, too..." New 50SoG right there, boom.
DeletePersonally I actually want things to work out between them, otherwise what's the point really? I guess it's the hopeless romantic in me where I wish to see more happy endings than sad ones. I guess that Maggie ended happily, but not in the way I wanted it to. Still the ending was better than I felt about it initially.
ReplyDeleteI like complicated, imperfect characters, not dull and boring ones.
Ok, I've got some catching up to do but I'm not sure if I'll get around to reading the 200 something comments on the first one, so let me know of any recent discoveries.
ReplyDeleteI've been taking notes as I go along and I think it's helped me to be more objective in my reading and less emotional. I think the premise for this story is very similar to the premise for Maggie. Where Maggie was a heavily sheltered child which spurred her sexual curiosity, Taylor's childhood was the opposite. Free living type of childhood, surrounded by promiscuous people. So instead of venturing forth in search of new discoveries like Maggie, Taylor's destiny was more of a foregone conclusion. To her at least, and I don't know why.
I can put the pieces together with the slutty sister and unfaithful mother (I think), but I don't understand why she feels like that has to define her. It puzzles me how Taylor can say in the same breath, that Harrison will always be the best thing for her and that she "is going to" sleep around. Not because she has to, but because she wants to. These things contradict each other, sweetheart.
I'm at the 56% mark, so I haven't gotten to the part where Taylor and Harrison make up and fascinate themselves over the possibilities because Harrison's dick gets hard when she's fucks around. And I'm not looking forward to it; as if blood rushing to his organ can magically dispel their problems away. Problems like her being a liar and deceitful and untrustworthy. This relationship doesn't deserve hope, it deserves to die.
There's something profoundly dehumanizing about Harrison's circumstances. I get that that's part of the genre. But I find it dehumanizing when a state of arousal becomes the defining characteristic of a person. I don't like it because it's an acceptance of dishonesty and because it is at odds with the basic level of human respect that people should have for one another. It's the only way Harrison doesn't leave her forever. Maybe he does, but even him watching her, getting off on the idea that it's *his* girl. I find it denigrating and I don't mean cuckolding in general, I mean Harrison's circumstances and to a lesser extent Max's as well.
I'm going to finish it, but not out of hope for their relationship. I'm mostly interested in what's going on with Taylor's dad and how it relates to water skiing. Why Taylor was a bitch to her dad for a year after she had to stop competing. So mysterious. Whatever that thing is cannot absolve Taylor but it's intriguing. Every memory so far about Mr. Brooks has shown him to be a nice guy.
It's a steamy novel so far and I'll say KT Morrison touched on a concept that could be the anthem for every sexual fetish on the planet when Taylor was thinking: "It was no wonder she was doing this. If she *could* have this why wouldn't she take it?"
I remember my late teens and early twenties. Didn't take much to get the blood flowing to the reproductive system.. as a matter of fact I think it was hard not to be hard. Harrison doesn't need to see Taylor and player X to get wood. But because of the distance it'll be sex by proxy. Which will keep fueling his need for her. On the other hand if kelsie becomes a thing. Taylor will diminish.
DeleteSo Bout the concern over Harrison getting his and Taylor not so much...let's face facts here Harrison was desperate for that cherry popping skin to skin event. Had to beg for it = had a raging hard on and a nutsack so full probably was uncomfortable. Anyone here ever been that horned up before? then when you got inside it was everything you thought and popped your cork early?
That Taylor wants to experience different cocks while away well at least she is up front about it. Yea she made some big friggin mistakes I'd have left my car an just ran...but Harrison stayed.
My brain is telling me to stop thinking as smoke is pour out of my ears ....
I think Harrison developed im goa voyeurism watching Taylor and Taylor liked being watched which is her issue...together they compliment each other.
@WA - Glad to see you're still reading, we'll await your remarks! I didn't remember reading anything about Taylor being mad at her dad, so that's interesting. I tried looking up where that might have been but didn't find it. I think a lot of people are focused on Taylor's mom's infidelity because it was alluded to early on, but Taylor eventually says that both were involved in emotional relationships with co-workers.
DeleteI haven't let on as much, but I feel like your (and also Jeff's, which is similar) take about why Taylor might fall trap to infidelity, without meaning to be cruel, makes sense. Sort of a feeling of, "Well this was bound to happen, I might as well just admit that I'm going to do it." I don't know, maybe that's too sad, but the way Taylor blames herself for how she handled the end of the summer party, it makes me think she's internalized being a bad person in some ways. I want to learn more!!!
Oh boy, these long as posts again.
DeleteThe 'state of arousal doesn't justify her behavior' thing. WA you're up to your old tricks again! I think I see a little better your perspective with this new character, but I think you'll need to read more to get better understanding of what's going on here. That being said, it isn't just about the fact that Max or Harrison's dicks getting hard about their significant other. The way you characterize that makes it so objectionable that it's no wonder you believe Maggie (and Taylor) to be such bad people.
Instead, it's about the behavior of Max and Harrison, likely because of the way they got aroused by the situation, which causes the conversations and actions between them and their significant others that leads to further depravity. It isn't just because of Max's boner that Maggie continued her foray which eventually led to her discovering she would rather be with Cole, it's because Max's boner led him to verbalize and sexualize the concept of being okay with Maggie trying stuff with different people, and putting themselves in situations where the events became bigger than the concept could even be expressed.
I don't know if what I just said made sense so an example might help - Max staying in the foray the entire time was because he wanted to see Maggie let loose with Cole, innocent enough, but what he witnessed was a powerful experience that was probably fundamentally changing Maggie's feelings about Cole for good. A romantic date, fantasy man, good friend, kinky setting, doing exactly the things that turn her on, it all adds up to something bigger than could be imagined. And at no point in the time between the moment of that feeling and afterwards when those states of arousal diminished did Max (Maggie already fully onboard) stop to think they should discuss what was happening rationally.
The real connecting piece in these stories, is youthful exuberance. It's a double edged sword, because it can cause things like the Arab Spring in one moment, and lead to alcohol poisoning or car accidents in the other. Young people taking the reigns on huge concepts like love, expression, and life experience and plunging full tilt with little to no understanding of the consequences, or maybe because the consequences aren't made clear since no one knows what the right course of action is, until they're either in a new reality that they never knew they wanted until they got there, or in too deep into one they didn't want that they can't turn back.
The "you can't have it both ways" thing is a little too black and white for me, at least in the way you characterized it. Sex isn't necessarily love, although I want it to be, but people can parse that act away from love. It does get more complicated though when she doesn't avoid the concept that she might fall in love out West. Now all of a sudden Harrison being "her best thing" starts to become muddy. Hearts big enough to love two people is still a concept I can't necessarily grapple with, but then again, I'm not in that reality (bringing that up again), maybe it makes sense when you really love someone as much as Max and Harrison do.
Did I call an armoire a foray above? Yes, so what? I know furniture, ok?
DeleteI hope reading that in the third paragraph helps it make more sense.
We agree on what their 'state of arousal' does for their relationships and what it leads to. That's not where my issue is.
DeleteIt comes down to choice for me. Max had more control over his choice of sharing Maggie. It's when the choice is ripped away that I distrust one these characters. For Max, his choice was that he wanted to be there. For Harrison, it was the basic agreement between lovers: don't cheat. I think my point of view would make a lot more sense to you if I told you that I would really, really like Maggie and Taylor if they weren't dishonest and didn't break the trust.
I agree that it's more complicated than "you can't have it both ways," but in that moment of their relationship, it should've been that simple. Taylor understood that it wasn't right because Harrison was upset and she was crying her eyes out. It's why she puzzles me. But she broke his trust with Stevie *before* that conversation. That's why I don't trust her. And think of precedent it sets when Taylor insists on a break and then fucks some guy an hour later. That's not really honesty. Imagine a scenario where they're finished with college and they're together again and Harrison wants them to be faithful and exclusive and Taylor agrees. Then they get married. Pulling out the 'break' card because a hot guy is visiting in this scenario would be dishonest, no? It's the same situation now, except it was assumed by both of them that they would be exclusive hence the rage and tears.
Of course they actually ***can*** have it both ways, but not by sneaking around and lying. And this leads into my perspective (see dehumanizing rant above*) where it makes me tremble to think of a situation where that kind of dishonesty is acceptable despite established boundaries because of a 'state of arousal'. It's never directly mentioned, it's more like an unknown force that seemingly absolves the female protaganist of her indiscretions while pulling him in like a moth to the flame. As if his feelings of hurt and betrayal are brushed aside, pushed to the curb; as if his feelings and emotions are no longer of relevance. Like something greater than both of them is tugging their strings and guiding them to the places they are supposed to go and that makes it ok. I don't like that.
Don't read too much into that paragraph, maybe I'm reading more into the story telling than what's actually there. The first two sentences, though, are how I feel and hopefully the paragraphs above it explain well enough why I feel that way.
These long ass posts are the beeeeest, you know you like it
haha, I actually was referring to my own post that became so long i had to split it, nothing about yours! I love breaking shit downnnn.
DeleteThe bit about Mr. Brooks is at location 1420 if you're using Kindle. There's clearly some details expertly omitted. Basically Taylor is describing her skiing competitions and then suddenly she stopped and was a bitch to her dad for a year. Why? Was it related? There's something there.
Delete2b2h and WA. very entertaining ping pong.
DeleteWhat we know.
1) Taylor was planning to break up with Harrison.
2) they are both fools in love with one another.
3) kelsie is complicit with Taylor. But not with stevie or colt.
4) Taylor did not like it when Harrison pleasured kelsie, but Harrison sort of liked watching Taylor getting her rodgering.
5) KC is gonna kick somebody's ass eventually.
6) Harrison is making tough decisions with only his gut to go on.. did he really stick up for colt.....let him burn baby...
Incomplete list but I gotta get back on the ckock.
Clock.... jeez check your spelling johnc
DeleteAlso I noted some boundaries that they established:
Delete1. Condoms with everyone but Harrison (location 3564)
2. Their 'open relationship' closes off when they aren't separated (location 3815)
3. Harrison wants to know who she sleeps with and what happens. Can't seem to find the location, but I know they talked about it at some point. Probably some lenience here.
It's assumed that the earlier indiscretions, namely the parts where Taylor takes a steaming pile of shit on Harrison's trust, were grandfathered in because Harrison had no chance against the powerful cuck magic that washed over him.
I was your safe boyfriend, here until you’re ready for better.” “No way, Harrison. You’re for real.” He nodded, looked a little sullen and couldn’t hold her gaze for long. He said, “I’m for real. I’ll be here for you when you come back to Michigan.” She said, “I like that. I couldn’t stand to lose you as a friend.” He made a soft scoff. “I’m your lover.” “You’re my lover,” she agreed. “If you’re okay with that.” His eyes steadied on her. “I am.” “I’ll always be your friend, Harrison. No matter what.” He said, “I want more than that.” “I do, too.” Harrison said in a shaky voice, “Can I come and sit with you?” Her sobs came back to threaten her, and she said, “Please, come and sit with me. I need you to, baby, I need you ...” Harrison scooted up the bed, getting a hand on her knee and she gripped his arms. He said, “Would it be okay if I held you?” “Of course, Harrison. I want you to hold me.” Harrison took her in his arms, and she pushed her face into his neck and cried.
DeleteHere comes the kick it's up and good Taylor puts one right in the middle of the friend zone.
That dark and dusky sign post up ahead what's it say "Now entering the friend zone..Welcome Harry"
The fun part will be the reconnect and how Taylor sees how Harry has grown.
I don't like Taylor at all, but Harrison is the one in love with her. I think they have a chance if they stay within their boundaries but I'm hoping Harrison can learn what the emotional equivalent of a big dick looks like in a woman and move on from Taylor.
DeleteOr maybe that Taylor and Harrison really do love each other and as bad as Taylor seems I think she'll be redeemed eventually.
DeleteHere's hoping
DeleteI think of Taylor as troubled and disturbed in many ways. She doesn't seem that nice but later in the book you find that she deeply cares about Harrison way more than Harrison even knows. I also think that Harrison really under values himself and feels he's not good enough for her.
DeleteWe know taylor isn't done messing up Harry's heart.
DeleteIf she was thered be no next book. The thing is what form will it take. Will H find out thru the internet.
"Omg is that T girl riding cowgirl on the cowboy on xvids!?."
What If she meets Jay..we know Maggie put the squeeze on professor Charmichael about Jay's behavior maybe he has to transfer school.. sad for him if he winds up with another girl whose gonna break his heart again..unless professor charmichael has to transfer and meets Taylor ....come on professor Geterdone.
Sorry... flashback...
Probably right John C as I think that this is a big part of the series where Harrison needs to find himself. Taylor will also get messed up though, especially if she falls for the wrong guy and ends up alone.
DeleteAgree with that Jeff. The potential for emotional devastation on both sides is pretty dam high. If Taylor hooks up with the "in" girls beau, that's gonna be as Inigo Montoya would say
Delete"Suffering galore". Same could happen to Harry even if he doesn't do the "in" girl that could turn into a snub and he could get labeled a non performer. If he does do her he could wake up missing a limb....(or maybe a twig.)
Even If Taylor becomes the village bike at her school. She be labeled something and for sure someone somewhere will have some selfies or worse of the events.
Just cuz I like it ....I can see KC telling this to colt when he realizes he's been duped and he did boink his sister....replace father with sisters propriety
Deletehttps://youtu.be/6JGp7Meg42U
@John C
Deletehahhahahaaaha
If I were to predict their future, I would predict that either Taylor crosses a boundary with severe consequence or Harrison discovers a person who causes him to re-evaluate his self worth. I'm not questioning the love Taylor feels for Harrison btw, wasn't ever a question. Their relationship could succeed but Taylor alone created the causation for her own destruction.
Also, and this is completely speculative, but I wonder about Taylor and Kelsey Kay. At the beginning of this novel Taylor really wanted to re-create her 'first' time with Harrison and I was suspicions of why. Maybe she was sexually intimate with Kelsey way before she was sexually intimate with Harrison. Their kisses seemed to come and go a little too casually with a bit of familiarity. Maybe this is related to why she wanted a re-run of her 'first time' beyond not using a condom. Harrison remembers a thought just five years prior when Mr. Brooks was the joyous leader (location 1130) which times pretty well with the flashback from Taylor's perspective when Taylor and Kelsey co-bullied a girl into the toilet. I think this event is related to why she stopped water skiiing and why she suddenly didn't like her dad but I'm not smart enough to figure out why. Maybe Kelsey is involved, maybe she's not.
It wouldn't be right if I didn't tag a song to this story so I'm gonna go with Sunset by The Midnight.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2D4iCzRW7E
That's perfect. I can also picture it on the soundtrack for an eighties move about waterskiing, summer, and love. With Elizabeth Shue and Ralph Macchio.
DeleteI'm still listening to this one...
If you like their sound, check out another of their songs called "The Comeback Kid." I like to think of Max and Keely with that one :)
DeleteWell for whatever reason, I always think of 80's music when I think of coming of age and summertime stories, even though I grew up in the 90's and came of age in the aughts. The thing is I don't even like 80's music, just modern renditions of it. Go figure ...
DeleteI feel like M83 lives in this world of teenagers growing up, the invincibility of youth, feeling left out, all in that retro sound that makes you want to take a drive with your top down in your sleeveless shirt and stone-washed denim shorts even though it's fall ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5cgzcjqOtE
Life is good now, but you've got so much to learn kids ...
I picture the movie Dazed and Confused, Matthew Mcconaughey is Colt and Willey Wiggins is Harrison, except Harrison has more personality than that Mitch character, haha.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
Delete@WA again - So I quickly realized after rereading your first entry yesterday that I misread how you were discussing your take on Harrison (and Max's) arousal as defining for the character. You weren't saying that it was merely a problem that he was getting turned on and so everything was fair game because of it, but that these characters are allowing that state of arousal to color their perception of everything to the point where they are even ruining their better judgment as a result. There's a case to be made that, in retrospect with Max for instance, that you're right. The better call was to drop his relationship with Maggie because he eventually lost her.
ReplyDeleteI do think that how you characterize these male characters as 'dehumanizing' their SO is an interesting take, it's one that has been made about cuckolding or hotwifing in general. That whoring out your wife is mostly male-centric. That's the extreme version I suppose. But there's other perspectives, that of the belief that it's actually quite a sacrifice of male privilege to let one's wife sleep around, especially when it's a male of their choosing. For all the complexities of their emotional reaction to watching their SO sleep with other men, more on that later, one of the most common threads is the concept that they love their SO so much that they want to see them in ecstasy. It can be argued, as KT alludes to with Tommy's character in Happy Endings, that the experience that can be had with wifesharing in a relationship can be enlightening, dare I say, transcending or self-actualizing. There needs to be a lot in the relationship in order for that to happen, but ending a commitment to monogamy doesn't have to be a sign of disrespect for everyone involved, particularly in the KT universe.
One word on the emotional complexity of wifesharing. It's important in these stories that everyone involved have a complicated relationship with the concept of wifesharing. The sexual arousal is just one of those feelings. We can talk about how central it is to each of these stories, but it's not all there is. There's also deep biological drives that know no relationship, and make us more animal than humans that marry people. There are realities that can't be ignored, like the one that makes men like Cole more desirable than Max, all other things being equal at least. Or the reality that Taylor has only ever known one relationship and she wants to spread her wings away from home. These men and women love each other, and just as we might sacrifice an arm that falls asleep when our girls rest on them, take that to it's logical conclusion, what about seeing them happy sleeping on someone else's?
It's complicated as fuck, but you see the challenge here, and not every person is equipped to handle all the problems that arise when we listen to one part of ourselves to the detriment of another. But we know there's a benefit for us doing it or else why would we? So you listen to that part of your brain that says "you're hurting him" because the part of your brain that says, "I'll always love him" or "God this feels great, and besides he said he wanted it" until he's ripping his ring to you off your finger.
Inevitable editing follow-ups - up above, I said wifesharing is an example of giving up male privilege 'especially if it's a male of their choosing' I mean of the girl's choosing, key distinction there!
DeleteThe question you raise as to whether cuckold/hotwife stories are misogynist or feminist, male-dominant or female-dominant, is interesting. I think part of the answer may depend on the reader's attitudes and perspective. Personally, I'm a sexually submissive guy, which is how I came to discover and enjoy the genre in the first place. I get off on the husband's/fiance's/boyfriend's position of being sexually secondary, of being implicitly or explicitly inadequate. And I get off on the heroines (and I do think of them that way) indulging their needs and desires "selfishly," at the expense of their SO's. That is why I've said in some previous posts that I never blame or condemn the women in these stories -- in my mind, it's a beautiful and appropriate (not to mention fuckhot) thing for them to take their pleasure as they will, and for their men to just have to deal.
DeleteI'm sure there are some who would still find the above misogynist or dehumanizing -- that I'm painting a picture of a submissive's fantasy object, not of a real person. And I suspect it's not the way KT would prefer her stories read; she works very hard and with tremendous skill to create emotionally and morally complex characters, and I imagine she wants me to dislike her women sometimes, or at least to be disgusted or disturbed or dismayed by their actions. And I am, on some level -- those aspects are why I admire her work above any other writer in the genre -- but there's another part of me that's just more masochistically thrilled the further they go.
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DeleteResubmitted because god damn I suck at editing.
Delete@WA - Here I go again, I am once again having to edit my post about the topic of responding to your post. I once again realized I was reacting to a characterization of your post rather than what was exactly your point. The consequence of reading it and coming back later, I guess. Your biggest objection of all is the dishonesty displayed by Maggie and Taylor. Whatever rules are established, breaking them is the ultimate sign of disrespect, regardless of the type of relationship the characters are in.
To that I think we will never have full agreement, I'm realizing. I think we actually agree with the post i responded with this morning and rereading what you said (again). The reason I don't think we can fully agree is that I am not ironclad on the rules or even the spirit of the rules. Not to say you necessarily are, but I think that I must clearly be more retroactively forgiving of these female characters, and the reasons for that are those things that I mention above about the complexities that transcend any relationship, and those that come from not everyone being able to handle situations as cleanly as possible, especially when they're young.
Doesn't make anything any less wrong, by the way, just that why it happens can be more complicated and if the male character is true to himself, if he wants his SO to be truly happy, maybe being bitter about the betrayal to the point of cutting them out entirely is not the best way of improving himself or the relationship he wants. It's not necessarily clear in those instances if breaking up is the solution. And if it is the best solution, it isn't clear we can truly blame the failures of the relationship entirely on the male or female characters in the story, or if we just need to blame how the world/humanity works in general.
For me, it's intrinsic that a deep level of love and trust exists before a person can explore these types of things and I think they're wonderful, beautiful things to explore.
DeleteWhere we venture off in our opinions (which is fine by the way I'm not trying to convince you, just explain myself) is the path towards that exploration. To me, it's sufficiently complicated enough that I don't believe it should be forced on somebody. It's a very complicated thing that everyone experiences uniquely that I think requires a great deal of mental preparation. It has a massive impact on the mind and body that's severe enough for me that forcing it becomes as offensive as rape or assault.
And yeah, you're right, there's no way we actually come to some kind of middle ground because clearly the dynamic of cuckolding and wife-sharing is more complex than staying within established boundaries when those things only exist because we've discovered parts of ourselves that are at odds with the those boundaries. So as we test our limits in the ways that Taylor and the other girls do in these stories, we find the ways that make us unique. Ways we *know* about ourselves so absolutely that to try to explain it seems silly. But it's not at all. We all just have uniquely different definitions of what ok looks like.
I feel like I need to further clarify my points earlier about what I find de-humanizing. It's not cuckolding/wife-sharing.
DeleteI hold Taylor accountable for her actions. I don't believe that any form of sexual enlightenment on Harrison's part absolves her. You can find examples of this at locations 3252, 3284, 3326 and especially 3343 and 3385. In my notes, I called this the magical cuckold force meddling with human affairs. What I find de-humanizing is when those things redefine a person's principles so drastically that things that they found extremely offensive just hours earlier are disregarded. 4,000 words of Harrison's intense paranoia as he searches from room to room, swims the length of a lake in the dark, lurks around the docks like a sea monster, assaults a girl that might be a stranger just so he can know the truth. And it *was* intense. I even noted that I was concerned for Taylor in their relationship because it freaked me out how paranoid he was.
For me, those two events don't negate each other, they can't. Harrison's transcendence, to go from that person swimming across the lake to the person fucking Kelsey fucking Kay, was god-like. It disregards his earlier standing on morality and oversimplifies the real transformation that a person would go through. That's what I find de-humanizing, not cuckolding/wife-sharing in general.
This got a lot more wordy than I hoped it would be, I'm sorry about that. I really like the story and I'm ok with what happened because it's just a story. It's a lot more erotic if everything happens at the lake house and I get that.
A word on 'Cuckold meddling' - I think the important thing to note about this occurrence in these stories is that there is a residual meaning that needs to be confronted by the main male character. You're focused on the aspect that says, "This is not going to lead to anything good, turn back now!" while there's a reason that the male characters are feeling the way they do worth exploring to figure out its utility.
DeleteI think it's fair to say we all have a default position of monogamy when it comes to dating anyone. So right off the bat, if anyone violates monogamy rules the pact has been ruined and the violator should be shamed. What if you liked it a little, though? What does that say? Was it really a violation if you kind of want it to happen again? What if she loves you and just couldn't bring herself to let on what she was feeling because she knew she was going to be a violator, but you really believe that she does in fact love you?
Maybe it isn't so wrong afterall and this can be your new normal. Maybe the book on relationships has been wrong for centuries because of an imposed moral system of family that took us out of the fundamental socio-cultural dynamic that defined our ancestors' lives centuries ago and our minds haven't evolved to catch up with our current moral prescriptions.
Or maybe the intuition was right and you should have trusted your gut.
I think KT has an obsession with this crossroads, and I love her for it. We've seen it result in many different adventures, with different results.
I feel like I'm having deja vu talking about all this, so I hope when I said it in the past it didnt sound as interesting as this time around.
I always enjoy having this discussion. It's even more than just a crossroads, because it's not even just monogamy vs polygamy. It's also a combination of good feelings and bad feelings, and whether or not those combinations are satisfactory for an individual person who has to decide for him/herself if it's worth it. Our moral prescriptions are constantly evolving so I think it's futile to try to define a book of relationships. So then I look to the individual for permission instead..
DeleteAnd Harrison never had a choice, which is the violation here. Not that she sleeps with other people but that she forced it on him. And to me, that violation alone, moral ambiguity aside, would not create the sudden urgency to revive the relationship and immediately fall in line even as Harrison comes to terms with your kind of enlightened thinking. Enter into the equation the 4,000 words of intense panic caused by exactly what he feared and I call a foul. It just happened way too fast for me.
But I'm not Harrison..
First, I'm definitely not enlightened, I hope you weren't taking a jab at my opinion there, because honestly I am in "actual real life" a lot like you when it comes to relationships.
DeleteBut I do think that a major fundamental issue that exists in these stories is, what if we've been living a lie socially our entire lives and it all of a sudden hits these characters in the face that they want to live a different life? The problem for them is there are very little amount of resources available to them to learn how to navigate this subject in a society of monogamy. So maybe the subject never gets broached, just forget you even had the thought. Then Colt walks in, and all the thoughts you knew you had to finally bring up are rushing through until you just have to act on them.
Now it's out there, and the dialogue that didnt exist because there didnt seem to be a clean path for you has to be had. It cant be ignored. I hate platitudes but maybe it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission?
I just think it's more realistic that the subject of sleeping with other people come from a disaster like this. Having it come organically as a result of some sort of dialogue or agreement seems to be more difficult to imagine.
Doesn't make it right, but maybe the problem is that these thoughts of infidelity have no cultural pathway from which to grapple with and embrace its merits, it's just knee jerk denied because it's so wrong. So when people inevitably have these thoughts, people go crazy because they're SOL.
I really hope this doesn't offend anyone, but I imagine there are people who are homosexual that could relate to the problems that are caused when natural urges are repressed because of a fear of cultural sanction.
100% wasn't a jab. Typing out that sentence the way I started it, I just couldn't think of a better way to write what I wanted to without typing 'cuckold magic' again. You are enlightened because you understand concepts that most people aren't capable of understanding.
DeleteIt very well might require a disaster like this for Harrison to learn that he would be living a more enriched life having had it happen. I can see that. He almost certainly *will* come to that conclusion because otherwise the story would be over.
Taylor is the one that failed to trace beyond society's dotted lines because she assumed Harrison would be vehemently apposed to sharing her and actually planned to break up with him even though in her heart of hearts she didn't want to. So instead, she forces it on him. With or without a cultural pathway in place, this is not ok. For the same reason it's not okay to rape someone even though they might like it. To hell with culture, forge your own path, one that doesn't risk life-long damage. And Harrison coming to terms with this thing being forced on him so quickly and easily, even if it was the best thing in the world that could have happened, is what I find unsettling.
That's where I'm coming from ..and that took a very long time to relate into words. I would love to see it as a topic in these books.
By the way, I missed the memo that we weren't supposed to be masturbating to these stories. I have an inverted relationship between that act and what types of books are meant to be masturbated to that constitute her catalog, apparently ...
ReplyDeleteI did have to put several of KT's books down for days. Not always because I was upset but also because I felt a certain excitement mounting and wanted to wait for that special moment to read it. I wonder if I am the only one who feels this way? I often go back to read them more as well.
ReplyDeleteUsually I stop when I get to sore...
DeleteCertainly not days, usually the only obstacle for me reading a KT story is when I absolutely do not have time to. The worst experience for me was the infamous 1am release of Recovering Maggie, I powered haphazardly through reading that with heavy lids and could not reread it with the proper amount of attention it needed for a few days. It is something where I attempt to exercise delayed gratification, but if a story is out, it's gon' get read ... now!!
DeleteIt is hard lately though because the normal rhythm of reading a KT story has changed with her decreasing ability to write around 100 pages. It's becoming ever the greater time commitment. ;)
Yea when I get a notice of a new KT story. It zips right to the top of my priority list. For me KT's stories aren't fap material as it is being a spectator to someone else's life. I get emotionally attached to characters. Which then allows me a voyeuristic view of the story.. also I'm still considering these stories therapeutic and KT my therapist (really KT you should charge more per hour).
Deletelol John C.
ReplyDeleteThat too of course!
And finally, just for fun because you said the following rules were established, and it might help illustrate my point. The following are realities unique to the situation that make following these rules more complicated that just simply following what was verbally agreed too.
ReplyDeleteFirst WA's rules for context -
1. Condoms with everyone but Harrison (location 3564)
2. Their 'open relationship' closes off when they aren't separated (location 3815)
3. Harrison wants to know who she sleeps with and what happens. Can't seem to find the location, but I know they talked about it at some point. Probably some lenience here.
Now for the hard truths -
1. Colt was a different type of experience that Harrison could not give Taylor and the other people involved in this inevitably come with their own agendas, which might lead to violations in Harrison and Taylor's rulebook.
2. And more importantly, Harrison and Taylor are inexperienced and each other's only sexual relationship, it isn't strange that they explore others and learn what they like, and that sometimes they might need to bend what they don't like because they learn more about themselves and their SO.
3. Taylor did not know Stevie or Colt were going to be at the party, and the willingness for her to explore probably became too overwhelming that it changed her time frame, "Maybe I should start doing this now?" In her words - "I was compelled to them."
Still bothers me that kelsie and Taylor's "plan" was to break up with Harry..(did she intend to use the extracurricular sex as the point of no return?)
DeleteAfter a couple of conversations where the issue was pushed "are we done?" Even when he had enough and would have bolted had the road been open. She convinces him to stay. Outwardly, this was pretty shitty thing to do.
Inwardly the struggle she had with the break up must have been emotionally traumatic. The sex with colt or stevie may be the distraction tactic used for self defense. Orgasms are better than dealing with difficult emotions or people. It hurt both ways. But at least in the moment it wasn't painful but pleasurable. Do it enough times could become a pavlov reaction.
Excessively stressful situation ahead ....do what ever needs be done to achieve orgasms as often as possible to survive the stress event.
I'm pretty sure I stretched something and may have pulled a brain cell coming to this point so gonna take it easy for awhile and hope Reza comes out sooner than later.
@2b2h
DeleteI guess I don't understand why you feel like your hard truths surpass the importance of trust and honesty in a relationship. I hope I'm not misreading your meaning. Different experiences are important to have but not at the cost of trust. Without it, a relationship can't succeed. I want Taylor to experience everything she wants to I believe she can if she is honest and upfront because Harrison's experiences matter too. It's the pact she made when she committed herself to a relationship with Harrison and my terms are unconditional. I'm sorry I'm not more open-minded but this is just my limit.
Maybe you're saying the urge to have these experiences is uncontrollable, like the urge to smoke a cigarette or scratch an itch. I would reject that completely from a narrow point of view that's biased and based entirely on my own experiences. I'd have nothing to offer you there.
@John
I thought that was weird, too. Taylor knew breaking up was the reasonable thing to do but chickened out because of her love for Harrison. And when confronted with the truth that having both things in her life would create conflict, she snagged both anyway. She's just very childish in that way. You might be onto something with the pleasure masking her pain idea but the onset of everything happening at the same time would make me think otherwise given Harrison's less than stellar track record.
Kelsey is orchestrating something and I'm not sure what it is. I think she has the biggest impact on Taylor's decision making. The only bread crumbs I gathered were related to water ski competitions, Mr. Brooks, and the bullying incident. I don't know how they're related. Also in the scene where Taylor and Kelsey are kissing, I got the feeling that it was being intentionally described in such a way that it could be interpreted as their first kiss but not necessarily. So I wonder about them.
WA - I realize now that you may not have read that I agree with the idea that Taylor fucked up royally, that was all stuff in the previous blog post. She ruined her opportunity to get Harrison to at least know what her actions were likely going to be by not even trying to apply to State, by going on the pill, by planning her big event with Kelsey, Brady, and Harrison (and subsequently Stevie and Colt). Then when she got caught being flirty with Colt, instead of saying, "you caught me" she had the lady balls to get mad at Harrison when he suggests breaking up with her as if she wasn't planning on doing that very thing later on.
DeleteI guess part of what I'm saying is not everyone is so easy to pin down (in a personality sense, weirdos!) and relationships aren't always built the same nor is the way they are maintained always the same. Taylor did nothing to get Harrison prepared for the realizations she had and it led to a major challenge in the relationship. Now that all of the cards are on the table and the reasons for the indiscretions are out in the open, however shitty it came to be known, it's time for their next phase. That was Harrisons choice too, as you mention.
Can they really know what to expect though? Is it as easy as saying, "he should always wear a condom?" or "You cant sleep with Kelsey ever again," Maybe for infallible people, but bareback was a powerful experience for Taylor (probably mostly because of Harrison being the man with her at the time) and having sex with a good friend is deeply emotional. We can say out loud that you can't cross the road because it says, "dont walk" but what if no cars are coming and you really need to get to the other side?
Ultimately you're right, I just have a knee jerk reaction to anything that I perceive to be too simplistic.
And yeah, I do think some things that drive us are beyond our control and high minded concepts like modern relationships dont exist in a vacuum, it's always subject to human fallibility. And for me, if I understand the context for people's decisions, I am probably very forgiving when evaluating its component parts.
WA - Hmm now that I think about it, I realize that all the rules you remembered pertain to what Taylor needs to do, and not Harrison's rules, you didnt mention the Kelsey rule.
DeleteYes, that's also a rule. Harrison can't sleep with Kelsey. Should we start keeping score?
DeleteThen when she got caught being flirty with Colt, instead of saying, "you caught me" she had the lady balls to get mad at Harrison when he suggests breaking up with her as if she wasn't planning on doing that very thing later on.
DeleteFound this interesting 2b2h...its ok for her to break with him but not him with her...rejection issues much??
Our characterization of that might be oversimplifying what happened, but the affect seems to largely be that i think, yeah.
DeleteWith Taylor we have a very complex character where I think she doesn't know what she wants and is going to be torn in much of the series. I don't think we'll be seeing the last of our frustrations with her and Harrisons apparent acceptance till he grows up some and realizes that there is no changing her. I'm still convinced that their relationship will deepen despite things and they'll still love each other despite everything.
DeleteYes, I'm a hopeless romantic.
I don't really think it's hopeless. I would say the juice isn't worth the squeeze but if that's what Harrison really wants.. He's already gone this far.
DeleteWhy? Taylor fucked up a major decision in her life, but what about the three years and years more of friendship? I would think that history factors a lot in his decision.
Deletethree years of relationship*
DeleteI'm saying there's hope :)
DeleteHope ??? Harrison met a girl named Hope?
DeleteI think the river that runs through Harry and Ta-Ta's life is a lot deeper than we give credit. It would be one of the key reasons why she couldn't cope with his leaving or deal with having to actually break up. Love will keep them together (thanks cap'n an Tenille). How much shit will harry have to deal with who knows. Will it be too much even with Hope on the side.
And for those who know not C&T...
https://youtu.be/_QNEf9oGw8o
Whatever they become will be transformed into something where honesty is no longer assumed and trust is no longer given freely. So I'm crossing my fingers that they stay friends for both their sakes. But if Harrison can come to terms with that then there's Hope.
Delete@2b2h
The idea that their time spent together should mean something to Harrison going forward sucks. It's a bad idea to commit to a relationship with great potential for resentment because of a time investment. It's the sunk cost fallacy and Taylor already understands that.
The whole weekend seemed schemey too me.
DeleteTaylor planned to break up with Harrison
She planned with Kelsie to fuck Brady(was she planning on being broke up with Harrison by then?)
Kelsie planned to break up with Bradley. (Was that really because Taylor wanted a three/four way and once shared he would have no value anymore. )
Colt planned on banging Taylor. Stevie probably didn't plan it in advance but it became one of those short notice spur of the moment plan to get Taylor alone. Seems everyone had an angle except the guitar man...or did he??? Dun dun duuunnnn...
WA - I'm not sure you're viewing my perspective well on that at all. I think that a person isn't defined by one obviously terrible decision, and that's only made clear by history ... It's easy to judge Taylor in this story because we literally only have this one moment in time to define her and almost none of her perspective. That and we're reading a KT story of course, so I'll probably look terrible based on Taylor's future behavior, but the decision now to keep with Taylor isnt necessarily a bad one.
DeleteSo to play along, it's just as irrational to stop being invested in something (or someone in this case) that was rewarding historically because of one poor (even disastrous) outcome.
John - it's clear that Taylor and Kelsey had an agenda that predated the summer party, but I think Colt's (and Stevie too probably) conspiracy is a general plan to sleep with anyone attractive that's giving him the time of day, and he seems like the type that not being given the time of day will stop him there either.
Hmm maybe Colt was looking forward to the party though because he knew Taylor would be there and "this time I'm going for it."
No..I am viewing your perspective, we just have different standards for what we expect of people. It was one "decision" but it was a carefully orchestrated plan sprinkled with dozens of lies. I think it's a massive misrepresentation to describe what Taylor did as a single moment of terrible decision-making instead of the huge betrayal that it actually was.
DeleteWhen that type of thing happens, it only takes one time to put into question everything you understand about a person. Anything they say is scrutinized. Maybe you're capable of rebuilding that bridge of trust with someone but I'm not and it's a bad feeling when in crumbles.
This is so fruitless too...we all know Taylor's not done fucking up Harrison permanently. These stories can be worse than torture sometimes.. Noooo don't drive off the cliff, stop! NO NOT AGAIN! WHAT ARE YOU DOING?? AND AGAIN?!
WA - I guess thats fair to say I have different expectation of people, I dont like to think so. I mean I agree with everything you say here, really. I think you can find distinctions in what has happened and say they were multiple violations. And maybe I am diminishing the power of what shes done, or ignoring how it can effect trust, forever.
DeleteI do think that for however orchestrated the plan to end things with Harrison was, it wasnt until she was finally forced to acknowledge what she was doing was harmful to Harrison, that what she was doing wrong seemed to have any impact on her. Any of the violations or lies by omission that Taylor committed surrounded this event she ignored it until she couldn't any longer. She chickened out because breaking up is hard. Now the tears she should have been shedding months before she hurt Harrison's feelings in this story terribly have been shed, and we can see where things go from here.
Maybe it's just better to not acknowledge the elephant in the room that this is a KT story, and think about what's next, haha.
Nothing seems to bring into question my own rule of ethics like a KT story. And they don't matter to anyone but me but I can't help myself but talk about them anyway. Because in the story, the only thing that matters is if Harrison can absorb the blow and accept a new type of lifestyle.
DeleteWhich I'm not convinced of yet. Everything just happened too fast. I think he was in panic mode, frightened of the sudden changes, and did and said a lot of things that might not be intrinsic to who he is. A quote I really like is "You can't love someone if you don't know them."
So... maybe that's where the next story goes. Harrison trudges along with this internal dialogue as Taylor does whatever she wants and we get that juicy angst until the affection fades away and with it the angst. And maybe that leads to other things..like other people who are more nearby..
I would get some dark satisfaction from reading a scene where the script is flipped in a very hurtful way...
DeleteWould it be wrong to want a prequel short. When where and why she decided not to go to Harry's school and break up with him and plan the
Deletemulti-partner sexcapdes.
And who influenced these decisions. It would be cuck gravy to find out she and colt had been texting(sexting?) about it.
I absolutely cosign this, maybe stick it in Open Hearts, Open Minds? I mean, she didnt apply to State, meaning she was thinking about a life after Harrison as early as the winter semester. That means Christmas she exchanged gifts with this on her mind. Valentine's Day, Senior prom ...
DeleteGlaucon's gender swap scenarios had me in tears. So funny! I'm imagining another one right now:
ReplyDeleteOur happy young people are having a conversation on the beach. Connie, KC's friend from college, is having a conversation with Harrison about a local legend on Highway 17. Legend has it that the old highway is haunted by ghost and she's seen it! Taylor is nearby, poking at her hamburger that's covered in sand because Harrison dropped it. She silently observes her handsome boyfriend as he stands near the beautiful blond vixen.
"Let's make a bet that the ghost is real," Connie says with a smirk.
"Oh, please.." Harrison says, shifting the bulge in his pants so it's plainly visible. He looks over his right shoulder to look beyond the lake as he pretends to scratch his head with his right arm. He tenses the muscles in his bicep and puts on a little show.
Connie's eyes widen as she stares silently. Eventually Harrison puts his arm down, breaking her trance and she says "loser has to streak across the beach!"
Harrison mulls it over in his mind for a few moments as Connie leans towards him. Her slender fingers glide across the exposed skin of her chest as she openly stares at the impressive bulge, now within arm's reach.
"In front of our friends? I don't think so," Harrison answers.
"Nothing they haven't seen," she said smugly, her attention on his junk uninterrupted.
"Gross. Not my friends. Well, maybe when I was like, eight.."
"Ahh, don't be embarrassed," Connie teased. "You're already almost naked, what's a little bit more matter?"
"Easy for you to say," Harrison responds. He looks over the lake again, his expression blank. "Aren't you supposed to have a super tight, juicy pussy?"
I was thinking of something just now, hopefully you guys can help me make sense of it. So Harrison jizzes his pants without touching his dick because the scene of Taylor and Colt was so erotic. That seems to happen to frequently in these stories. Am I missing something and jizzing your pants is quite common in these scenarios or is it mostly just fan-service? If it's the latter then who's it for??
ReplyDeleteIt's a tough one...only thing I can say is for myself I've been over excited before and jizzed before the blood finished rushing in..so it was a soft ejack. Very rare but happens .
DeleteBut when you read those paragraphs, what are you thinking? Hell yeah? TMI? Get a grip?
DeleteI just finished my reread and have an alternate theory which I feel is reasonably well supported by the text though some parts are less supported than others. I started writing a justification for it, but it was turning into essay length with supporting quotes and explanations and I don't have time to finish it at the moment.
ReplyDeleteThe Too Long, Didn't Write explanation:
Trish was cuckolding Taylor's father on a pretty significant level for years and the kids knew about it. The Brooks children all responded in different ways.
-KC sees a man who lets it happen as weak (see the insult about the father in the corner masturbating in chapter 26), hates any man who would take part in it (explains his reaction to Colt with his sister), and doesn't want Taylor to follow in the family path. (“Don't turn into mom”, )
-Riley was hypersexualized which resulted in her having sex at an early age (discovered flushed condom) and continued later on.
-Taylor was hypersexualized as well, but her perspective on what constitutes a normal and healthy relationship was warped by the failed model of her parents. Combine that with the blow up over Riley's boyfriend's flushed condom and Taylor was both sexually active from a young age (before the 16-17 at which she claims to have lost her virginity to Harrison) and against condoms because she saw the blow up over the discovered Riley condom. She got pregnant and had an abortion.
There are flaws to the theory. I'm basing it largely off unconnected thoughts of Taylor. She says and thinks things that contradict it. I say she's a liar to Harrison and others (we know that) and to herself (not a good one). She's inconsistently ignorant and knowledgeable and acts like she wants something and is at other times completely unaware of it. The serial lying covers part of that. Her conflicting desire to dump and not dump Harrison covers part of it.
On another note, I really hope Taylor wasn't lying about going on birth control and that her calling Harrison Daddy in the bathroom was comparing him to her cuckold father rather than saying he's going to be a father. (Colt would be the father if she's pregnant because plot) There are reasons to think that it is possible (how she told Harrison about going on birth control, the agreement to only have sex with him without condoms, the onesie, the crazy uterus thoughts) though I can't imagine why she'd think it was a good idea at this point in their lives.
Does your theory work in why Mr. Brooks had to leave forever after being a very loving father for many years?
DeleteUnlucky - I like a lot of deep thought in these stories, but you're not making sense.
DeleteHeavily cuckolded and the kids knew about it? Failed parenting? Hypersexualized youth? You are making so many leaps in logic and they're unsubstantiated and overly dramatic.
How is cuckolding corroborated in location 4596, where Taylor describes emotional infidelity at worst that's blame squared (potentially) on both parents' shoulders. An emotional relationship is not physical, and it was potentially both ways. These kids aren't depraved sociopaths here, mom and dad might have had their own struggles but I doubt they weren't parenting as good as any parent can. How these kids conducted themselves read as nothing more than normal teenage rebelliousness with no adult supervision, which is fine because they're all adults anyways. Certainly not nymphomania.
Flushed condom = abortion? That's a huge leap! Is it possible that there was just a huge argument about having sex too young? Like every parent would have with their child?
Unlucky - One correction I need to make, i assumed you said "failed parenting" when you actually said "failed model from their parents" of relationships. And actually, that is about the only thing I might get on board with, but I think that's only because they're too young to know how mom and dad probably tried to make it work.
DeleteDo you think that Taylor would really tell Harrison that their parents broke up because her mom was cucking her dad who eventually got tired of it and had his own affair? (physical or just emotional) That would explain the situation as we know it and has parallels to Taylor and Harrison's situation with her not being ok with him having sex with others.
DeleteMaybe I'm making too far of a leap, but Taylor repeatedly thinks she's an awful, awful, awful person plus she has bizarre views of herself, sexuality, and pregnancy. That's not a normal level or flavor of crazy. That's what happens when something happens at a young age. I initially thought abuse for that reason. Getting pregnant at 12 or 13 then having an abortion could be another. I also considered that maybe she said something which revealed the father's affair which caused the parents to split, but I don't know if that is significant enough, especially since she'd have had years to intellectually understand that it wasn't her fault.
Idk what to make of Taylor's inner turmoil. It doesn't seem to have a lot of bearing on her choice to be with stevie or colt.
DeleteLocation 1420. It would have had to been the summer of 2015. That's when it all went down with her dad. Personally I think whatever caused her dad to split was more concerning than either an abortion or a failed marriage. All the flashbacks of happy memories, so mysterious.
ReplyDelete"Four lovers" movie for the wife swap and cuck fans . Its French so you French Canadian types it'll be easier than having to read the subs....this one I found to be pretty realistic with the feelings and such..
ReplyDeleteI had an epiphany today, and I have homeboy WA to thank for helping me piece it together. It involves that key note that he mentions about the Summer of 2015 being the start of Taylor's family troubles. I think it's at this crucial moment that changed how Taylor viewed Harrison, and it may hold the key to understanding how truly sustainable Taylor's romantic relationship with him is.
ReplyDeleteSomething happened that Summer that caused a rift in Taylor's family at the top, and my theory now is that instability caused by the emotional loss of her father, might have caused Taylor to start clinging to Harrison a little closer. The length of Harrison and Taylor's romantic relationship has me thinking that it was this moment in time that changed how Taylor viewed Harrison, from friend to lover. She might have needed someone desperately to be a rock for her, to help her through the tumultuous time that a divorce would cause. And guess who was there? The man who would keep Taylor on the straight and narrow, Harrison. Now all the little side comment jokes calling him Dad make sense. To Taylor, she's joking, but in reality that was Harrison's appeal to her in this time in her life. She needed a rock, a man in her life, and that is who he was.
The question is now, as she has grown and is becoming more independent and the pain that is the loss of that stability of her father starts to become ingrained in her and she gets 'over it' as well as anyone can, will she need that type of figure in her life in a romantic sense, or was that just a childish clingy obsession, and she'll grow to realize she needs something different in her man.
I'm realizing quickly that I've once again boxed myself in with a Oedipal complex type position. I'd like, rather, to say that what Taylor needed wasn't a father figure, but a constant, stable, positive male presence. I don't know if you can fully disentangle the Oedipusness of that position either, but I think it's a key distinction.
DeleteIt makes sense but what doesn't is why Mr. Brooks would just leave forever like he did. Idk, maybe I expect more from a character from a KT Morrison novel than I should, but from the flashbacks he didn't seem like the kind of father that would just suddenly leave his children without a father figure.
DeleteThere's a secret there and I can't connect the dots. Location 4331 talks about weird bullying that went on in 2013..idk maybe it has something to do with that. Why even bring up the thought unless it had some significance? Maybe Kelsey and Taylor were up to something and daddy caught wind of it a few years later. Who knows?
Is it that conclusive that he was completely MIA for them? I dont think that Taylor's dad completely abandoned them, but I imagine the complexities of divorce shook the family dynamics such that every family tradition (like water skiing and singing Don McLean by the fire) became less frequent or tainted. And I imagine his absence is either the terms of the divorce or his emotional immaturity that he can't put aside for his kids because of the painful thoughts they bring to mind by association. Who knows ... we'll find out.
DeleteMaybe a reason Taylor doesn't want to go to State is she'd be even closer to her dad, and that freaks her out?
That could be 2b2h at a subliminal level. She may have thought about going with Harrison and experienced some type of anxiety about it not really knowing why.
DeleteI just want the next reza book...cuz this one will make me go blind or lose my mind thinking about it.
It's entirely possible that I'm creating a narrative that isn't there. It was an ugly divorce and maybe his absence is a result of terrible memories re-surfacing. Maybe he's not absent at all and the Brooks kids see him all the time and it's just not mentioned.. It's just a gut feeling, really, that I think he's not in their lives anymore.
DeleteIt just seems to me that a person who would drive a boat from sunrise to sunset so a bunch of kids could have a good time would want to keep doing that. So I feel really bad for him..
And I'm basing those feelings entirely off of the assumption that Mrs. Brooks was the unfaithful one because she quickly sought a replacement and because Harrison called her a MILF. I don't even know if it's true! I need more!
DeleteIt is possible that the Brooks children aren't actually children of Mr. Brooks. They could be products of one or more affairs or children from a relationship prior to their meeting. In either case, he would have raised them as his children but he might not actually have any visitation rights.
DeleteWorldsApart: I assumed this myself because of the way that Taylor's brother told her not to become like 'mom.'
DeleteWhoa. Unlucky7 that might be gold you're digging thar.
DeleteCould be in the heat of an arguement the milf let fly that his children weren't his. Subsequent testing and the betrayal was too much to handle ....seeing the kids not his own too much to handle... he bows out to preserve what little sanity he has left...
Alternate universe:
The mr tells the missus he got her drunk and knocked up by someone. The kids aren't his and she gives him the boot..
Yet another alt uni:
They both were swinging she gets knocked up by another.
Either she lies or didn't tell him she was off her pill. He thinks baby is his all along until by accident he discovers there not related..
This is a multi-verse so possibilities are quite plentiful.
Dad's name isn't Mike and mom's name isn't jen by chance anybody recall a first name?
Helluva crossover it would be.
Yeah, Unlucky I want to apologize, I shit all over your opinions like a two year old learning there's the concept of ...*gasp* sharing ...
DeleteI still think you reached a lot but you even said as much. I also think that you are expecting a much more extreme story than the one KT is willing to tell. She never roots her character's motivations in mental disorders or trauma.
The concept of cuckolding between mom and dad Brooks is an understandable position now that I think about it more, and the concept of the 3 of the Brooks children not even being blood family is also really fucking interesting.
No matter what, I think I'm going to feel really bad for Mr. Brooks.
DeleteIdk WA he might be happier now and maybe with kids that he has no question about their lineage. Ok glass half full. Having been there...shit happens and you move on. Sucks that he isn't involved that we know of. But this isn't a story about the ms or mr, as fun as it is to speculate about them. This is about (striking my captain obvious pose). Taylor and Harrison. I don't expect to read anymore about mom and pop, unless taylor reveals something to Harrison or OMG she tells one of her lovers(colt) who then, "...Harrison she didn't tell you about this? Wow!? It so personal and shocking! That she shared it only with me? I must be something special to her huh?" As he snickers at Harrison and walks away .
DeleteIt's relevant to Taylor's behavior. If we don't read more about him then I'd assume creative choices were made to spare the readers..I think it's too relevant for that, though. I'm super happy to hear you were able to move on and there's hope for Mr. Brooks. I can 100% see that hypothetical situation you described happening.
DeleteYea the age old adage ..."time heals all" works for reals. Back story on mom and pops would be a story in itself...just don't see alot of cheddar in it. I'm less concerned about the why of her behavior as I am about what she gonna do next and how is Harrison gonna deal with it.
DeleteI think we have come to that personal choice crossroads. Which is the difference between us. I'm cool with that too. You wanna know what took place I don't care so much about this one. In Maggie the parents were quite a bit involved in the plot i just don't see that in this one...if KT includes them I'm gonna love reading about it though.
I'm with John on that one, and will read either way :)
DeleteI'm eager to see Harrison and Taylor more than a ton of backstory about Taylor's parents. It would be better to do it separately in my opinion. Maybe it comes in hindsight or something.
DeleteI'm with you guys -- I want to read about about Taylor and Harrison. Just a little bit, like a sentence, would satisfy my curiosity because then I can think about how his circumstances impacted Taylor's life so I can get a bigger picture of who Taylor is. Not asking for a backstory here.
DeleteI get you.. I'm very curious about why mom ditched the gathering in favor of.....what?
DeleteThe last hurrah before colledge same as a sweet sixteen type event in my eyes. But than again if she had we might have read about mom and colt..
Imagine KC...." Moooooom?!?!?." As he ties an anchor to colts limp body throws him on the boat. "We're not done talking about this...I'll be right back!!"
Reza..Reza..REza.REZA..REZA..
ReplyDeleteREZA!!!! ...give us a teeza, KT.
I'm excited big time as well. Looks like it's nearly done and we'll be seeing Reza within this month most likely.
DeleteBored just got off a grueling shift at work waiting for sleep to overtake me. Began thinking of some theme songs for cast members.
ReplyDeleteColt to KC:
https://youtu.be/01-2pNCZiNk
Taylor to Mom:
https://youtu.be/SoZUQ0QC19c
Colt to Taylor:
https://youtu.be/EZjevnnkA20
Harrison to Kelsie:
https://youtu.be/HQt6jIKNwgU
Taylor to Harrison:
https://youtu.be/1IdEhvuNxV8
Harrison to Taylor: (can go both ways)
https://youtu.be/RiKVjS3gR88
For mikey: (lucky girl he sings this to).
https://youtu.be/SQTHB4jM-KQ
For harrison:
https://youtu.be/FcOTExcE2dM
For Harrison and his first date: (go get her Harry)
https://youtu.be/zks6NOR2zqY
For our group:
https://youtu.be/zks6NOR2zqY
Ok it's old but the lyrics work....lol
This is appreciated, John! I especially liked Harrison's song to Taylor.
DeleteThanks ... I been wondering who Taylor's "Magic man" is gonna be. Will she become a valley girl or Surfer girl, or a surly girl.
DeleteColt to Taylor: You went for a Kiss song, and it wasn't Love Gun? It was practically written for Colt and Taylor. It's like his internal dialogue, ha ha.
DeleteTaylor to Harrison: there seems to be a real Burt Reynolds theme going her in the last few months. I made a Hooper ref in the comments a while back, used a Hooper gif for HE, then the guy dies, now this song? (Too lazy to google: didn't he do a movie called Hot Stuff and this song was in it?)
DeleteJust got un-lazy and googled it and I was right.
DeleteThat Erasure song is dynamite!
DeleteThe group one is the LOA song again!
DeleteI Want You by Savage Garden is such a great song for Kelsey/Harrison. Used to love this song, it's been a long time.
DeleteConversation has a time and place in the interaction
Of a lover and a mate but the time of talking
Using symbols, using words can be likened
To a deep sea diver who is swimming with a raincoat
Come stand a little bit closer
Breathe in and get a bit higher
You'll never know what hit you when
I get to you
Perfect!
I really likes this line from savage garden and I think it maybe appropriate for hay and Kelsie...
Delete"Ooh I want you, I don't know if I need you but
Ooh I'd die to find out"
I love that erasure song came out right about the time my first marriages demise....
Delete@KT
DeleteI'll see your....
https://youtu.be/vCo2QMJcsDg
And raise you ...
https://youtu.be/Gcj34XixuYg
Enjoy....
Man those haircuts are insane.
DeleteHere's a song I first heard like 8 years ago on a show called Chuck that was on NBC for a long time. Cool show, song is cool too, it's called Young Blood by The Naked and Famous:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YuSg4mts9E
Surprised I didn't think of it during Maggie conversations, must have been the perms or something
That's a good one WA.
DeleteI think of harry and Taylor on the roof listening to it.
If, say, I would consider releasing this book on (Patreon) with a probably weekly chapter, is that something that would sound appealing? The alternative is waiting till I have about 50k before publishing. And that 50k is more likely 80k.
ReplyDeletewhatever you want to do!
DeleteBy "this book," I assume you mean the "Separate Schools" sequel? If so, I suspect many of your more electronically oriented readers (meaning, everybody but old eccentric me) would love weekly chapters. For myself, I would hope only that a paperback compilation would follow closely on completion of the installments.
DeleteI'm not a fan of the weekly drips and drabs I prefer to get lump sums. But thats just me. I'd blow through a chapter in minutes and be desperate for the rest of the week...plus I think we'd blow a hole in the
Deleteblog-o-sphere,
commenting on every chapter.. JMO
John, you say that like it's a bad thing. :)
DeleteAbout the same as being a freshman in high school who gets a surprise kiss from the hot chick then has to go to gym class and change into PT gear with a raging hard on..."coach can I take my shower before calisthenics...pleeease?"
Delete(Yea I said calisthenics.
.. you younglings can Google it.)