Discovering Maggie
Discovering Maggie is now available!
Maggie’s away from her husband-to-be, staying at her ocean-front home in Rhode Island. The wedding is only ten months away and her mother is helping select her dress.
Ten more months to explore herself and the things she may have missed...but when other men know this, nothing is sacred...
Well...you might say you're in the "big leagues" now Max. And he's realizing just how unprepared he was for all of it. The tension is significantly ramped up, and in the aftermath I can only think of Max's last words. Just want does he have planned: what "switches" he is preparing to "throw"...and will it bring Maggie closer to him, or push him further to Cole.
ReplyDeleteI tend to read the worst possible intentions in Cole's actions, so I'm thinking he had a pretty good idea Maggie would not react well to finding out Max was in the closet, literally. But maybe it's just an honest mistake on both his and Max's part. I am certain Cole is far from heartbroken at the turn of events.
Where does an "open relationship" lead...well if we go by the history of out stories here, nowhere good for Max and Maggie's relationship, at least in the short term. My money is still on no wedding, at least in 10 months time.
Have we seen the last of Jay...I doubt it. Will Maggie begin to keep secrets from Cole as well as Max? She wants to be bad, so what can be more bad than "cheating" on your boyfriend with his best friend? How about "cheating" on both of them with another guy. Remember, wolves are circling, not one but many.
Interesting point in the story. I remember with Nia reaching a point where it looked like everything was a powder keg ready to explode, but instead things settled down for a bit. Of course, then we got that explosion, and it was probably even worse than feared. I kind of see that here. We are still a ways out from that wedding; a lot can happen in 10 months.
All awesome points, and I agree that Cole is ultimately self-interested in Maggie right now. I will say, though, that Cole did a lot to conceal where Max was the whole time, all the way to the point where he couldn't lie anymore. It could be argued that there was a reason that he didn't persist in the lie beyond that point, though!
DeleteOn the wedding, wow, yeah I don't know either (if it happens)! It might take Max's absence again for her to remember how much he means, but right now if that absence is filled with Cole, what is she missing? What is that wedding going to be like? I have to think that Maggie is still too scared of her family to embarrass them by forcing its cancellation, and wow when she has to see the in-laws? I can see the tears in her eyes when she sees his dad.
On wanting to be bad, I thought about that too, does Maggie just perpetually enjoy cheating? But no! She really didn't want to cheat on Max with Jay, at least enough to actually do it (she says), and she really wanted Cole because he was such a good friend to her. These are not joe blows looking for hoes, these are the kind of men women settle down with and are happy with the decision.
I do see the parallels between Cole and Dino, all the way up to and including wanting to control Maggie (Nia). We saw where that ended up with Dino, is Cole a better man? I think so, but the parallels are there!
I call BS on at least some of Maggie's thoughts on Jay. Maybe she wouldn't have had sex with Jay if she didn't find out Max was into it. But clearly she was attracted to him and wanted him...it just felt to me like she was almost implying that Max made her do it, which is unfair.
DeleteAgain, we're into the mind of a cuckold here. Yes, Max didn't stop her from having sex with Jay, yes he didn't force her to use a condom. In Maggie's mind there is probably shock at that (and perhaps deep down in her a little bit of respect loss for him). But in the end we are all responsible for our choices. She wanted to have sex with Jay.
But perhaps I read too much into her words, and she's a little bit angry with Max at the moment (and not without justification).
Also found it interesting how Cole is slowly taking control. Again, I'm not even 100% sure he's doing it consciously, but man has he come in here and taken shit over. He thinks Maggie should be a lawyer...suddenly Maggie is going to law school. Max is gonna have a real fight on his hands.
DeleteOn Jay - yes, Maggie is ignoring the decisions SHE made independent of her husband's direct assurances or stated hopes. She took liberties thinking about what he might like out of it, but didn't know what he really wanted out it, really. Here's the thing though, she wasn't wrong! At least not altogether. The condom thing was a good example of that, Maggie let Jay talk her out of the condom, and I guess maybe part of her accepting that choice was rooted in what she thinks Max wanted, but I think she obviously wanted that too.
DeleteNone of what I say about any of the stories are without tons of counterpoints and you mention some, I already wrote how I agree that she wanted to cheat with Jay regardless of Max. I also wonder how much her statements about how much Max 'made her do it' were to appease angry Cole. Not that she totally forgot her role in the decision, but ignoring that portion of the decision to appease his anger.
I forgot to acknowledge my main point in bringing up how Maggie brings up Jay, namely that she might have been attracted to Jay, and as I mentioned, already kind of cheated on Max with him too before the end of Tempting Maggie, but it really might have been Max that is the reason she went all the way. She clearly wanted to do more than she already had, no one disputes that, but it may be fair to say it was Max who got Maggie to go along. You mention that possibility so you at least see its potential.
DeleteDon’t read if you haven’t finished it!
ReplyDeleteI’d say I am speechless, but then that wouldn’t make a lot of sense given the upcoming barrage of words that I never spare anyone. First, way to go Ken! What epic brotherly love. He really is an excellent guy for doing that for his sister. I can just see the conversation Max has with Ken though when he tries to discuss it with him, thinking he may still have a killswitch in play here, but what considering Maggie and Cole both know? The killswitch question I’ll have to think on later, but what play does Max honestly have? Jay? Fire with fire? Anyways, he’ll talk to Ken and I guarantee Ken will say, “I didn’t do it to protect Maggie, she’ll be fine eventually, I did it to protect your dumbass!”
Side note, who’s deleting the footage of Cole and Maggie taking the Mercedes? Uh, anyone, Buehler?
I love the cognitive dissonance I feel when reading these stories. It’s funny to catch myself thinking of activity that I find reprehensible in one context, okay in another. Somewhat related, at first I thought Cole was really out of bounds showing up at the Becker’s, but when it became known that Max was in on the whole evening, I started to get mad at him! I love that so much, who does that better than KT? Finger pointing everywhere and every one of the characters deserve disdain AND respect for their actions. You’ll probably see some more rumblings of me trying to untangle another epically weaved web.
Of all the painful acts that could drive stakes into men’s hearts when they hear or see their significant others doing, watching the love of your life make fundamental life decisions with the helpful advice of another man and being unaware of it, simultaneously putting himself squarely as the only other person she knows for miles, that stings only slightly worse than the hand holding, which is only slightly worse than the full on love making session the night previous, which oh yeah, was pretty bad. Then using Cole’s strength and resolve to break up with Jay, and not her future husband … Damn.
I don’t know, there is something about the Cole/Martin comparisons though that are rubbing me the wrong way. The wandering imagination from Maggie as she thought her punishment was coming, thinking of Cole, then “Eight more” later that evening when she was actually with him. The relationship between the men in the suits and the use of “Margaret.” The demand for reassurance and control from Cole, HE broke Maggie up with Jay after all. HE dressed her up and had her mind running in circles keeping up with what he wanted next. It might just be a game right now for Maggie, my feeling is that she thinks she wants a man like Cole right now, but she already has that kind of man in her life and it’s her father. I think it’ll get old, but I still don’t know where that leaves Max.
Get the fuck out of the armoire, Max! Fuck your pride. You knew what Maggie needed and you sat in there anyways. Instead you let Maggie work out her issues with another man’s consoling. Her best friend, and the person that is part of what she needs to work through … she even eventually knew you were there anyways! It never doesn’t make sense when a character does what they do in KT’s books, but I think Max messed up not throwing himself out of there when he couldn’t take it anymore. If I’m honest though, I’m glad he didn’t, but that’s for whole other reasons.
Parting shots tonight, the best work KT’s done since Temporal, which is still the best book she’s done in my opinion, but still! There were a lot of hurtful words tossed around and some of them are showing the rifts developing for Max’s relationship not just with Maggie, but with Cole too. I’m with JL that we haven’t seen the last of Jay, I just don’t see where he comes back in in the future.
Quick note: Cole and Maggie taking the Mercedes.
DeleteMaggie didn't think she was having sex with Cole when they left for the evening. It was innocent. She and her good friend from school were going out to have dinner together—nothing wrong with that. Taking the Mercedes was all right with her father, she presumed, although he might not like Cole driving. She wasn't ashamed or worried about what she was doing at first, but did make sure they didn't hold hands in the hallways. And as far as what they did at The Poirot, the cameras would still show she and her friend returning home from their dinner at a respectable hour, changing then leaving together in his Jeep to return to school. All together, not terribly untoward!
Thanks as always for your guidance! Couple things, my comments weren't meant to imply anything different that you stated above other than the part about taking the Mercedes. I guess I gave the fact that Cole would be driving his Mercedes without his knowledge more weight, especially given the talk her father and her had just earlier. Also, I thought about the changing part and the cameras, thinking maybe there could be some incrimination in both of them going into her room where Maggie entered and exited in different attire. I don't know how thorough the camera placement is or how bad that might look, but I was pondering that maybe that could be caught as well.
DeleteHmmmm.. For once I got it pretty much right (even a blind squirrel...) about Cole's plans, and Maggie moving into Uber Slut territory. Yes, she was aided in that journey by the idiot Max, hard for me to feel sorry for him... what an ass.
ReplyDeleteThe future? The analytical overlords above :), pretty much covered all the angles. What do I think will happen? Cole has the inside track unless he blows it, and he seems smart enough, and gives Maggie everything she seems to need to keep her happy..... But she is now a Slut, and Cole obviously won't allow that behavior from "his" girlfriend. If he can tame her with his dominance, it may be his marriage in 10 months. His best man? Probably not Max.
And I should have added, KT did a really great job with this work, kudos to her. This story would really rip my guts out if I didn't look at it as a fantasy (I guess all erotica is in some way, particularly the hotwife Genre).
ReplyDeleteI left a review on Amazon, and referred to this story as somewhat of a labyrinth. I ThinkPad is still a good assessment. Thanks for writing this KT, elegance, pure elegance (those who know me realize that works has special meaning in a mathematical sense).
Is Cole David Bowie and Maggie Jennifer Connelly (grown up of course)?
DeleteThanks so much, Guhrka!
Delete(And boy that's an esoteric Labyrinth ref!)
Ugh, not ThinkPad, I meant "I think it", damned spellcheck.
ReplyDeleteHi KT. I"ve just finished reading your Taken While He Watches By The Combine. Please make time writing more of these standalones in between your series. Btw, I was the one who posted before as Anonymous, who's a fan of a reluctant virgin heroine, and who suggested a basic plot. I've put in a handle this time for easier identification. I also bought Learning Lessons: A Losing His Wife Novel but the novel is quite long and I will need to set a time to read it. Keep up the good work! And hope to read more from you.
ReplyDeleteYes, I think there will be some changes around here, and that there will be more standalones in my future! Keep an eye out for my upcoming reluctant fiance story soon...
DeleteMany thanks KT!
DeleteLooking forward to hearing more about this!
DeleteHi KT! I am checking Amazon regularly to look out for this new standalone release (reluctant fiancé). Please release it soon(er). Thanks!
DeleteCosigned :)
DeleteSO, KT amazing job! Max, I think you lost buddy, sorry :( Here's my take, yes I do believe from what I read, Maggie does love Max, BUT, what made her switch things up and go to Harvard? Shes falling in love with Cole and now shes going to be with him instead of at home with her new husband. Will there be a wedding? Only KT knows...Listen if you remember my original post on the first chapter I said this was going to be LONG 10 months, its proven to be. We've seen several chapters and were still 10 months away.
ReplyDeleteI can't get a good read on Cole either...is he just helping his friends on a journey? Does he LOVE LOVE Maggie? Or is it a friends LOVE? I don't like how quickly she was to forgive Cole, why not forgive Max just as quick? Why was Cole with her to end things with Jay? WHY COLE WHY??
Max outburst in the Pizza join, totally warranted! Not only was Max last to know, but in that moment Maggie = Jess = Nina...anyone else see that???
It tears me up to read these stories, but Im addicted to the genre so every morning i search for a new one...I hope you don't let us wait long for the next chapter KT..keep writing PLEASE & THANK YOU!
Still Desperately Waiting...
PS - can we get an easter egg on Nina, Geoff & the BABIES??
Thank you, DW!
DeleteAnd I totally saw that, wink-wink.
I miss geoff and Nia and Odie so much! I'm editing LHW2 to publish it as one combined novel and boy, it's like spending time with old friends. Right about now I'd love to spend some time with them doing new things, like I did recently with Pete and Jess. It might be the thing I finally send out in a newsletter...
DW - always enjoy your perspective! I think the biggest thing that upsets me about Cole, other than his duplicitous behavior is that he refuses to acknowledge to either Maggie or Max that he has feelings for Maggie. WHY COLE WHY?! He's a coward that he can't see his feelings and admit it's, at least in part, his motivation to keep getting with Maggie. He tells Max she's special, he hears him tell her she's special all the time even when they are engaging in more-than-a-friend like behavior, which should be twirling red flags all over Max's face! But he chooses to be comforted by the idea that he's doing it because he's her friend, doing it because it's part of the experiment, and because it's Cole's words that state he's doing it as her friend.
DeleteHe tells Maggie he's doing this because of the experiment, that he wants to know what it's like to date her, with the convenient protection of it being only for the experiment. Maggie wants to see if he's serious about this more than just in the experimental sense, but he's hiding behind that out of fear. Maggie is going to want the truth from Cole, too. When she gets it out of him (I think this will happen), will she be willing to accept that he's been lying to himself, Max, and herself the whole time?
Gah ... but! As I've said before, it's not totally Cole's fault he's in this boat. As Maggie and Cole have said before, neither of them even came close to getting together before Sharing Maggie, it was Maggie that plunged Cole's mind into sexualizing their relationship, with the aid of Max as well. Cole didn't have time to think about the right course of action in the sense that would protect his previously established friendship role with Max or Maggie, and that is precisely because of this wonderfully enticing carrot that dangles in front of him in the form of the 10-month game.
DeleteI also forgot how Maggie still thinks Max and Cole concocted that evening without Cole showing Max the video. Maggie might have felt she would have more to apologize for if she new Max was persuaded by her own words.
DeleteCole is able to use that lie to look more honorable, Max looks more exploitative, and Maggie gets to continue thinking the video was mostly harmless.
Ooo! Ooo! Max, you have a switch to pull! I just put that together ...
DeleteSorry if I repeat but just finished the story and my eyes are too sore to read thru the comments. :
ReplyDeleteFirstly and quickly:
smoking hot sex scenes.. Coles a player (but we knew that). Max is an ass (we kinda knew that too)., and Jay started out as a player but got burned. Ken to the rescue. How can daddy be made at his Lil pudnum.
Amazing KT. I was ready to poke holes in the walls with Coles seduction/betrayal . then I was able to poke holes in the ceiling with the bedroom scenes..then the max in the closet poked holes in all my theories. Well done!
Cole betrayed max. Max betrayed Maggie, Maggie betrayed max 2 to 1 max loses (ok Mags got betrayed twice too) ..he should ask for the engagement ring back before she hurls it at him.
I like the. .." will there be a wedding?" .Oh yea there's gonna be a wedding maybe Cole and max.. no that's not right.. jay and maggie... hmmm maybe not he did get burned pretty bad. So one will and one won't. .. as it is right now I see Maggie drifting away from max. But he's the smarter of the suitors just not as good in bed. Time for some plotting and scheming. Doubt if Max can undo the effect thoae orgasms had on Mags. Perhaps Max can find someone to make Maggie jealous with and help force her hand, just a thoough. Gonna be real good reading the next book.
Final thought...max should have jumped out of the closet with a batman costume on ...would have saved the day...😆
Oops side note we all assume it was ken that deleted the video ...still could have been momma
ReplyDeleteOh and one more thing ..Maggie seems to have had a sudden growth spurt. Maturitywise...she making decisions for the future regarding her career she wants to be out from under mom and dad's boots. Even her appearance has become that of an adult then collesge kid (With the exception of the cum stains on her cloths.) Cole is good for her in this process as more of a dom personailty. Maggie may have alterior motives for Harvard but I think it's mostly about getting away from parents.and becoming independent...I wonder if Max will talk to the future father in law or ooooooooh a sudden thought came to mind just now..anyone remember Ann bancroft in "the gradute" . Get tiger mom to seduce/dominate Cole. Ok I'm grasping at air I got nothing on how Max pulls out a win in this..
ReplyDeleteAs for the time line... it's only going to be ten more months IF they are going to get married. Her going to Harvard or dumping max could make all bets off. Someone is in for a huge heartache. To me neither Cole or max deserve Maggie and it's possible Jay is too good for her.. Im done commenting like our cast I need some time to think. Ill defiantly need to reread it again before I start posting nonsense ....oops too late ..😅
I hope you guys know I write this stuff because it entertains me, and it helps me to think through the story as I understand it. I like the conversations on this because it always improves my understanding of the stories as well. The thing about Maggie’s Mom possibly erasing the recordings, did cross my mind, but I don’t think that she would. Seems really out of character. I mean she hates blue streaks in her hair and let’s Maggie know about it daily, but has a long game with tolerating threesomes on her music room furniture and people making a mockery of their home at night running around naked in general? Seems like she would be upset the moment she sees Cole threatening to smash a professional cello alone, let alone seeing her daughter engaging in sodomy paying witness to it.
DeleteRegarding Max’s deficiencies - Ah, but it’s more than he’s not as good of a lay isn’t it? I think the thing that Maggie is enjoying most about Cole is his decisiveness and direction (I wrote this before I saw your latest point about Cole so bear with me if it overlaps). I thought of that conversation at the end of the story when Maggie says, “I want you to know what you’re doing,” and I think again about how much Max just doesn’t know what he’s doing with a lot of this story. In that specific example of Max talking about what he should do with his future, it makes a lot of sense that Maggie would be confused by why he’s going to Oxbow. To me, Max is not following his heart or plan by switching internships, just doing what he’s told. It’s always good to have connections and her father has them, but Maggie doesn’t care about his success as much as she cares about a man who takes charge of what he wants.
Max is careless, I’ve mentioned before that it can’t be a good moment when Maggie finds out that Max has been holding out knowledge that Ken saw them, or that he was sitting in the closet when Maggie was with Jay in Tempting Maggie. The fact that he was in the armoire the whole time she was experiencing such emotional extremes that brought tears out of guilt, fear, sadness, etc. is going to stick with Maggie too. She might not realize it now, but Max might have already made Maggie begin to seek the emotional, experiential guidance of Cole over him, because of how lost she is in this. Whatever “switches” he’s going to pull won’t sit well with Maggie either, when she realizes that he was intending to do these things to sabotage something she’s doing.
Again, counterpoints abound, Maggie doesn’t need Max to have all the answers, she doesn’t need Max to be like her father, or parents in general, but have a plan and stick to it! If things change, be vocal about it, and admit what you’re going through! Even something like choosing not to go down on her anymore after Cole and Maggie finished. Why not? He doesn’t say anything, and if Maggie thinks about it, she’ll know it’s because Max was afraid to around Cole. She won’t necessarily think poorly of Max feeling that way, but it was a touch cowardly, and above all, he should be sharing these things with Maggie so she sees that he is thinking about them, and about what he wants, etc.
To be fair, Max has to grapple with hard truths throughout this story whether he has the ability to plan for them or not. He has a friend who probably has more of his shit together than him in a lot of ways, most notably the confidence that comes with the ability to seduce women. He has a fiancee that has not experienced a lot in the world of relationships, and he sees is curious about that world, and since their tying the knot soon, now IS the best time to experience it. And who better than your sometimes-otherworldly best friend to be the teacher? His fiancee is inherently more wild than he is, so he has to prepare for the personality-consistent behavior of her running off and doing crazy things in this new territory they are in even though it might seem wrong. Maybe it's just Maggie being Maggie? Maybe Max, but when you see she is falling for other men, it's time to step up and talk about it.
On Max not being vocal about things above ... I should also say, ."... or don't be vocal about anything and keep me on the edge of my seat the entire time of this story as the conflict grows and becomes more and more enticing and interesting." You know, whatever works ... :)
DeleteAlso on Maggie's growth spurt - is that her growing? I'm not convinced yet that Maggie is making decisions for her own anymore. The blue streaks in her hair were HER choice, taking them out can be her turning a new leaf, but considering how much other things are going on as a result (I think) of her budding new take on her and Cole's relationship, maybe she is doing these things for him and not herself. Boy does that sting for Max (and me) if that's true. Still if that's true, then relationships built that way don't last (or they become 50 year miserable marriages, so what do I know?).
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ReplyDeleteMaggie, Cole, and Post-undergraduate panic!
ReplyDeleteI think Maggie gave us all a tell as to why she might be jumping into Cole’s arms in this last story. Maggie said she’s going to law school not because she wants to, but because she doesn’t want to depend on her parent’s money. I also think there are other motivations hidden in Maggie’s actions that show she is latching on to Cole as a proxy to her father. Maggie is graduating and therefore becoming even more self-reliant. That puts a panic into anyone, especially when they’ve relied on other people for their livelihood their entire life. The responsible thing is to embrace the challenge and take the necessary steps to becoming that way and she could very well be doing that by going into law school, which did any of us know she wanted to do? It seemed really out of left field for a musical genius and artist at heart. Instead, it might be easy to keep with the status quo and replace the person who should take care of her. She isn’t doing this on purpose of course! It just feels so much more natural and comforting to be that way because that’s what she’s used to, and this is a scary moment in a young adult’s life! Women never have it easy, even if they are the exact same quality of a worker as men they won’t make as much as them on average, so they need assistance more than men do in this stage of life. Again, I think Maggie will really grow up, and might prefer the man that helped her try to grow all along.*
*Even at the same time that he needed to prove that he’d be there for her at her most harrowing times, grrr.**
**The implication above is that man being Max, but that guy might actually be Cole when I think about how he wants to learn from her, trying to look for her best interests, etc.
You make sone great points and observations.. I'm about 70 % ken did it. He did have time and opportunity he may not have know about the cameras either just like Maggie didnt. and 30% ma or pa did it . This one is something I kinda have some personal experience with.
ReplyDeleteIf mom or dad viewed the security tapes of that event . Firstly it would be devastating. Secondly It's not something they would share with the other because it's so hurtful for one and two you don't want the other to go off the rails. So if dad discovered it then his whole conversation with Maggie makes sense. See if she wants to confess to anything first. She wants to keep it secret...good! That indicates shame and a scandal can be averted if the tapes simply dissappear. Letting her know about the cameras prevents further crimes against humanity. Lettng her know the tapes are gone absolves her of the lying and being generally a nasty ass in his house. It's the higher high road. Being a business oriented mind profit and loss.. it's the best play ...she's over twenty after all what can he do but cut her funding and he made that plain and clear too. I know theres a logjam of why it won't be a parent. Especially with a take no prisoner's mentality that they have, but I'm going with a Crack in that facade that they both love Maggie deeply in their own way. So im leaving that possibilty of a parental intervention hang open for a bit. I'll be tuned into any discussions ma and pa kettle have with boys though.
Maggie growth spurt ..Cole treats her more like a woman the Max does. So that's another point in Coles favor. The trauma that Maggie went through with the bestys i think encouraged a sudden emotional change in her she . Remembering back just a couple weeks earlier. Cole and Mags were video gaming like a couple of tweens. Now Maggie is thrust into a much more adult world then she had been. And probably of the three has matured much more quickly because of it.
That sudden realizeation that with great pussy power comes greater responsibilty. More obvious now that she allowed herself to be seduced. Her announcing she didnt want to be and the emotional breakdown at discovery . Well I think Mag's is a new person now. I think someone mentioned before that this is a coming of age story and Maggie just did. I think. It's possible that max may just come of age too now that he realizes the possibility of losing Mag. His own personal impedance to mature.
Cole is the only one I don't think needs to grow at least not very much but he just may realize what love is really all about . What he does with that knowledge will be interesting.
Cole and daddy..Yea I was with you on the slighty oedipus thing going on there.
You make a solid case for the possibility of mom being the one who deleted the recordings, I just think there would be no way Maggie doesn't already know she watched them if that's the case. Your comment about Cole treating her more adultlike is totally legit, in fact i am glad you said it because i agree, but I think the case could be made that Cole is actually starting to force Maggie to do what he wants more, not very fair treatment as an adult. Max might be treating her more like an adult because he lets her handle her own business, Cole seems to be more of the approach that there are limitations to that. Hmm, now I'm torn haha.
DeleteBtw I know the implication is oedipal, but i actually don't mean Maggie is
directly fantacisizing about dad unconsciously. I think the nuance would be lost in this and I barely understand Freudian psych, but I just mean that she could be seeking, unconsciously, the security that a man like her father provides. How better to find that security unconsciously than to find a man who sometimes acts like him and kind of looks like him?
Yea was going with the whole tying up vs grabbing the bar for her spankings thing. Maybe that brought out that; he's just like my dad...ecurity blanket for her. Yes way too freudian I suppose but KT likes to tweak all the buttons and throw all the "switches" available.
Deletekeeps us guessing.
Sorry , I'm being lazy to research it.... but didn't max have another job opportunity aside from "big daddy's". Be interesting if he set himself up in a career oriented position it would make Maggies dig null. I got to be honest I'm like 50/50/50 on who I want Maggie to end up with. Max the love of her short life so far. Cole with his "I know what's best for you" attitude, and dom head gamer, or Jay who has been fairly straight with Maggie. At least more honest then the other two nimrods. Still wondering if prof Carmichael is gonna corner Maggie..
Max had another opportunity, yeah, but I don't know if he has since squandered it since he went with what Mr. Becker wanted. He made it seem like it wasn't a big deal to change his mind though when they were eating, so maybe he still can go back, or at least find an alternative. Either way Maggie and Max are going to be separated for the last few months up to the wedding, unless he lands an opportunity in Boston!
DeleteFor me on who Maggie ends up with, I have who I'm rooting for, and I'm realizing that I spend a lot of time writing out the reasons why Maggie shouldn't be with those guys or why I think Maggie's interested in them, because I don't want to be wrong, ha!
Only thing with Jay is I don't really have any emotional attachment to him anymore, unless he comes back in a big way where he is plays a central role in the story like Cole and Max have been, I don't really want him around anymore.
Jay was a really cool distraction for all. Idk if KT will further develope him but I could see him as the only one without a alterior motive for bedding Maggie ..he's kind of a cross between Max and Cole. Playful yet serious. This is not very likely(confidence below 10%) but was wondering if we missed out on a conversation between the prof and maggie. He did have an open door, and was willing to advise her. Plus she may have needed a fatherly advise without going to her own dad. That's just me thinking aloud though. I need to reread the jay break up part because I want to know how much time passed between their return ,Cole pushing for the break up, and then the break up. I favor reconciliation storys by far but a good break up and follow their hearts story also are good as it makes the other better (especially when the S.O. becomes an a-hole) . Our goldilocks has three bears to choose from curious she glances at cole when "there will be a wedding".. head fake?
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DeleteI don't think we've seen the last of Jay. It's just my wishful thinking because my head can't comprehend a woman developing feelings like she has for Max and Cole properly at this point now, unless KT has a bunch more books on tap, ha. I see Jay's remaining role in this story, at present, in two lights, both of which I've mentioned. 1) As the default pick (and certainly not a bad one) because Cole and Max leave bad tastes in the Becker family's mouths, possibly even Maggie herself. We've already talked about the Becker family wielding their authority, so maybe they cancel the wedding and push for Jay, or Maggie just falls for him in the wreckage. 2) Now, after this last book, possibly as Max's attempt at a tool to ruin Cole's grip on Maggie (the 'fight fire with fire' comment i made in passing above). I doubt that would work to his benefit, but Max has done weird stuff as we know.
DeleteI doubt Maggie had time to meet with the prof and I think we would know about it, but maybe! She went home Sunday with Cole and Max, and planned on meeting Jay on Thursday I think. I would think if she talked to his father before then knowing what she was about to do, she would have had a lot more guilty feelings, my two cents.
I love that there's others on here looking deep into lines that KT writes, the glance over at Cole at the pizza place I think is more out of embarrassment towards Max's petulance. I doubt Maggie's head is thinking marriage with Cole ... yet ... :).
Maybe max will go to the library and check out a copy of..."Domination for Dummies"
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ReplyDeleteMax and Manipulation Narrative
ReplyDeleteI had a girlfriend once tell me that her biggest fear in any relationship is that she is dating someone who is manipulating her. So much so that she hated even hearing the word. In this story we have the concept that Maggie is being manipulated by Max introduced by three characters, Cole, Jay, and Max himself!
The most important mention in this story is Cole's. His conversation with Maggie over dinner was extremely damning of Max, and it is really wrong of him to say all that he said. He seemed to use the concept of cheating on Max as a way of getting back at him for suggesting that Maggie sleep around. To me, it was a factor to Maggie's seduction, and that is a problem. The seed is planted here.
Max had a lot of passing thoughts when he thought Maggie would catch him in the armoire and starts catastrophizing everything, and one of them was he was manipulating Maggie for his own joy, which he has to know is, at best, partly true, and mostly untrue. There are myriad reasons why he accepted Cole's plan to seduce Maggie, but his own pleasure is only a portion of it. However, here's a moment when he was rife with guilt where he has internalized thoughts that he is manipulating Maggie, as if it say that is the among the biggest reasons he's doing this.
She heard Jay refer to Max as being manipulative, too. That might be troubling for Maggie's current thoughts towards Max, who knows Max is not truly manipulating her but has already been disappointed knowing he was watching Cole and her at the point in the story that happened. It's always persuasive towards driving home a belief, to hear someone say something, independent of what others have said. Jay was saying Max was manipulating her because he was convincing her to marry too young, but the concept is out there again as Max the manipulator.
It's true that Maggie could have been using her hold over Max's sexuality to get him to agree with her having sex with Cole, and it is also true that Max did try to get Cole to seduce Maggie, but Cole is the master manipulator here in my opinion. I think he showed Max a somewhat filtered version of the events surrounding the recording of Maggie, although I'm just guessing there, because he did admit that Maggie would never have asked for it unless she was prodded. However, Cole poured on the charm for that. He conned (not too harsh of a way of putting it) Maggie into sex twice, and convinced Maggie she needed to break off things with Jay.
Cole still has so many interesting nuances to his actions and words that I really can't place if he's being evil, or just justifying an obvious attraction, while also being an open book when he shares his thoughts.
One piece of contrary evidence though I just thought of when I think of Max as not a manipulator, is how nonchalantly he decides he'll get through another evening with the three of them before he'll try to sabotage everything. Almost as if getting his rocks off is more important than the danger that Cole is causing their relationship. Does Max honestly think that evening is going to be harmless if he feels compelled to try to put an end to Cole's ties with Maggie the next day? It does make me question how he views sex with Maggie now.
DeleteOf course, that being said, I'm glad he's waiting until the next day, ;) drama ensues.
On the head fake...
ReplyDeleteAny idea is as good as the next for me I think it was KT playing with my jealousy buttons. But I still had the feel that she had been getting closer to Cole. he put her on this current path. With the jay break up, she gave him a bj on the way back from the break up and before meeting max so when I read that part it was like Mags gave a brief thought to what it might be like for Cole to be the one. Or in the flash of a hyper thought .."if not max then Cole" but your point is very valid Max questioning their commitment might make her uneasy especially If she WAS uncertain. That would make it more a lovers spat and not some thing you want witnesses for.
Cole. .totally agree on him being the master manipulator..first he convinced and recorded Maggie to say she needed to cheat.then went to the lengths required to get her to cheat with him. All in good fun until someone's heart got broke. I still like jay as a candidate but I think realistically might take a chunk of pages and words to bring that to a strong enough relationship for a possible commitment to each other especially after all that's happend ..Jay may love her but he'd maybe have look at her as damaged goods. "How could she let herself get so bambozzled?" I'm still 50/50/50 on who I want her to end up with. I like that Max was her true love but then he did her wrong in a good way or good in wrong way ..it boggles the mind ..Cole because he can give her exactly what she needs but idk about it being long term, you mentioned something like that before and I agree. Jay is probably the best suitor but it might be a race with the author trying to conclude this series and jay could probably be a whole book by itself....but im not a talented and gifted writer like KT. So I'll just worry about the two we got and see.
I'll probably decide on who I want to win the fair maidens hand..as soon as I figuire out what max is up to. If he tries and manipulate Mags again then I'm done with him.. if he comes clean and exposes Cole for the backstabing sob that he is I'll be pulling for him.. if Maggie just falls In with Cole well gotta respect the bride to be's wishes even though I think it's a mistake it might be best for her. Then there's jay again who she probably should be with but again never really developed a relationship with him outside of coitus. Actually only know him for 3 weeks abouts.
And don't forget, Cole claimed he had booked the room at The Poirot the week before. That would be the day they were there for the tasting. Was he serious? ...
ReplyDeleteKT's stoking fires...
DeleteI forgot that was a key tally in the claim that Cole is the "master manipulator" here, that he planned this in advance, but now I have to wonder if it was him because of your framing of the question, ha! I think it has to be Cole right? I mean, if it was Max that booked the room, wouldn't he go all out and pick the Bridal Suite? Maybe he wouldn't because he would be violating the unwritten rule of not seeing things related to the wedding until they actually happen, but this period before the wedding is anything but normal. I had to research this, but now I realize that not just Max, but Cole too learned that Maggie would be back the next week for her dress, as Carol mentioned the plans over lunch the week before.
I still think it's Cole that did it, nothing else really makes sense to me.
Oopsy above, the scene where Carol explained her plans seemed to be over the awkward dinner the night before planning day with Suzie and Lee.
DeleteI totally interpreted this cattle prod as "someone booked the room ... but who?" Now I wonder if Max and Cole didn't just book it the night before and worked that line about doing it being booked a week before into the script.
DeleteI know the Poirot is talked about as being busy, but always sold out busy Probably doubtful.
Still plays into the manipulative Cole, but takes away from the evil genius part of it.
Two thoughts on it:
DeleteCole told mag
"*I* booked it last week" reviewing the events of the previous week it would be reasonable to assume cole did it preemptively. Then showed max the tape and planded out the weekend.
You other possibility is just as plausable with cole showing max the video then both conspiring to get the room.
My original supposition was that they tried to get the bridal suite but those where booked out already. So the settled for less. Would have been interesting to see if Mags would have gone anyway ..I know she balked when she first feared it was the bridal suite. But that could have also been subliminal as in it was so naughty to do. In other words she had to resist the possibility of the bridal suite to be properly offended yet it was so nasty it would have been such a turn on for her and we know cole could have convinced her to go if it had been. .. might have taken some orgasm denial to get her there and maybe some ties and riding crop .but she would have gone with cole. Has she denied him anything yet?
Point of note.
DeleteMaggie in a panic asked "you got the bridal suite?" Cole said "no i wouldn't do that." Easy to say if they weren't able to get the suite in the first place. Plus the look of panic on her face convinced him to add the I wouldn't part. I still think she would have gone had they got the bridal suite. I interpret the panic as not a refusal but an omg you didnt statement. It's just to naughty for her and cole to resist. Beside cole got her pantys off in the Chapel and finger banged her in the hall outside the rest room at the tasting. Why wouldn't he go after the bridal suite. Unless the afore mentioned second option is true in which max nixes the bridal suite idea or its unavailable.
now I'm just quibbling cuz I like the story so much I love going after the woulda coulda shoulda's, dids and didn'ts.
You present a really interesting thought experiment! Would Maggie ultimately care if they were going to the very suite that she would eventually consummate her marriage enough to put a stop to things? That's a great question. I took Cole's reassurance that "I wouldn't do that" to be a comfort to Maggie, that what she was doing was maybe safe, and Cole isn't an asshole, but at the same time, you're right that Cole hasn't really got a 'no' out of Maggie.
DeleteI've taken a lot of Cole's one-liners to be a man skillful at getting what he wants out of women, and avoiding their bad sides. This only works so long before an intelligent woman would start to catch on, but I think it's very possible that at this moment, he's doing very well at convincing Maggie that it's all in good fun. You're probably right that either Max and Cole or just Cole DID try for the bridal suite, because Cole likes feeding Maggie's dangerous side and I'm sure Max would want to go all out in this adventure if he was involved in the decision (though I have my doubts that Max would want to pick THAT room). I think if Cole was successful in getting the bridal suite he would have come up with a one-liner on the spot like to sooth Maggie's doubts, just as he had in the room he (or they) ultimately landed.
I know Max has been indecisive and reckless with Maggie and Cole's attraction. Thus the mess he is mired in at the moment. But on more than one occassion his superior intelligence has been mentioned. I'm holding out hope that he can raise his game and manipulate her relationship with Cole to his advantage. I think KT has given him a weapon to weave an interesting finish.
ReplyDeleteOk KT i'll bite:
ReplyDeleteWhy go to all the lengths of making the video, convincing/setting up max and showing up at an opportune time to take Maggies out if your not prepared..if any of the set ups fail just cancel the reservation. Easy peasy. After all he was practically banging maggie on the table in front of her mom and such at the tasting. Reserving a room at that time cuz he was in the right frame of mind to plot and plan Maggies seduction. Plus knowing he could come back in a week to collect his trophy would be a "just in case I get lucky" thing. I wonder what background Cole has, to make him so deviant to his besties. Maybe he's more childish then originally thought and this is just a LARP for one of his video games. Until Mags got hurt that is. It would put him in a lower light for me. I could understand (not agree with) manipulation for the purpose of being with what he might consider his true love. Anything else is just being an ass hat, undeserving of said fair maidens hand. Still curious about Mags reconnection with Max when she slept with both ..did she think letting him have her anally was a gift or that it was more important to give her front side to Cole. Maybe no significance at all just kind thought it was Max you are behind now Cole is up front. Dang I gotta re read that chapter now to see if she came on his penetration or just coles. Also I think I remember (got a poor memory) that she was more attenative to Cole then Max....
@mwesseli...I'm actually hoping Max's superior intellect DOESN'T involve manipulation of Maggie but is used in outwitting Cole.
There... I hope your happy now KT you got us twisting in the wind on the possibilities. And I for one am loving it 😉
Ha ha, yeah, I think that was an important threesome!
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ReplyDeleteI always do this delayed thought thing(blaming bad memmory again) but oops ..
ReplyDeleteWith out knowing the details of why they booked the room they did instead of the bridal suite...Maybe it was already booked. They were probably booked months in advance right? I mean isn't maxs and Maggies bridal suite already booked there for ten months from now?
The Trouble with the Truth
ReplyDeleteOne of the things that I am a big sucker for, is well crafted and undeniable arguments. Like just about anyone I suppose, I want to learn about the world and the truth within it. Unlike a fair number of people who choose to believe otherwise, that truth is important even when it's harsh. I can find the beauty in knowing that I am smarter knowing it. I enjoy that these stories deal with characters faced with truths, that have to find a way to handle them (of course, mostly in sexy ways). I'll frame the post below as it pertains to the Maggie series, but the themes overlap in many other KT stories.
There are challenges that characters face in some romantic stories or love stories that are arbitrary, or manufactured. In Maggie, the challenge is that Max unfortunately finds himself to be deficient in certain areas when compared to someone else that falls into the couple's life. Just how deficient, and how much it matters certainly effects the story, but what's wonderfully gripping about the story is that some deficiencies are undeniable and Maggie and Max have to embrace it.
Another element is that Maggie is inexperienced when it comes to relationships. Max isn't that much more experienced, but it is a fact that Maggie didn't really get a chance to explore herself sexually. As painful of a reality it is that Maggie might explore that curiosity, the alternative to exploring it is worse. Obviously, it's hard to get passed the concept of a significant other in the most intimate contact known to man with someone other than yourself, but that look Maggie gave to Jay will never go away. Now Max and Maggie are exploring what that means for them.
Another major element is that the three of Cole, Max, and Maggie are great friends that care about one another. Self-interest starts to creep in for all of them certainly, but you can't help but puzzle over a number of interactions that take place throughout this series, and wonder what each of them is motivated by. Care for a friend, or care for someone that can be come a romantic partner. If I cover one eye, the one that blinds the self-interested goal of finding an exclusive sexual partner for oneself, I can frame countless interactions between Cole and Maggie, in particular, but also with Cole and Max (as it relates to Maggie that is, although sometimes otherwise ... ) in the context of friendship. It's because they had such a tangible friendship, that you can feel that way. At least I do.
Always important to mention, as much as these truths are important to my interest in the story, it needs to be explored with people I can relate to. I can understand their thought process. Even if I disagree with it, I can see where they're coming from, and so it's easier to read when it goes awry. Too many writers in this genre want to hide behind the concept that the husband had it coming, and to be fair, sometimes KT does it too, but not in one iota the same way. Except maybe Pete, but that isn't even a fair comparison. The husbands don't have erectile dysfunction, are serial cheaters themselves, are too busy with their jobs, emotionally distant, egotistical to an intolerable degree, or any of the other tropes that other writers allow people to comfortably justify infidelity. No, what KT delivers is facts, normal people faced with a world that doesn't care if you're ready to understand it, but if you want to sleep well at night, you better damn well try.
I agree with this and I think I commented back in LHW that KT's characters are wonderfully flawed humans not a stereotypical villain , victim, or hero. At some point in their repective stories they portrayed aspects of all three. Max in this story was the villain when he hid in the closet during jay and the amoire during Cole as well as being a victim of Maggies disrespect (thinking of the post beach sceene when Maggie was more concerned over Coles feelings then Maxs). In addition to Cole insinuating himself into Maggies arms.
DeleteHero.. he's had moments but still waiting to see if he can pull off a death defying heroic deed.
Just a thought on Cole would he be rougish enough to diss his homeboy Max. Just for a chance at daddy's apple via marriage with Magpie. Max knew Maggie for 4 years but never knew the side that Cole unleashed perhaps that door swung both ways now Cole may display behavior that max would never have thought possible before. Just excellence in character developement from KT.
So going back over a few things. I touched on some points of interest for myself. Maybe someone else will find these tidbits interesting also.
ReplyDeleteCole we know as a manipulator and master player much more knowledgeable in the sexual arts then Max and mag put together. I'm sure he didn't learn naughty knot tying just before he did it to Maggie plus his seduction was professionally done...but it WAS Maggie who pushed him into the three ring circus first describing her imaginary bf when she was 16 named "cole" then finished up with a bj on the beach. Prior she was just like his sister. ( Hope I never find out what burnt sperm smells like. She had to spit it in the fire huh? Ewwww!)
Jay seduced Maggie which was easy because she wanted to be.
Opine: love at first sight with Jay. She seems to miss him alot but seems mostly physical. Haven't seen the emotional bonding yet just a little here and there.
Not thinking of incest but maggie has a daddy daughter thing going with Cole only he gets to call her Margaret and she responds with daddy. Daddy was strict as is Cole. Cole and daddy have some commonality both were in sports, they both like fast cars. (Maybe faster women). Etc
From the begining Max felt Maggie dated him to impress daddy.
A secret society that may not be so secret depending on the video tape and kens ability to stay quiet. ( of course if anyone other then Ken saw the tapes they would have to talk to ken about it as he would be on the tapes too.) Plus the pics Cole took of Maggie in the music room during exorcism. (No face pics.....that we know of.
Maggie is looking for max to step up at the market "be a man for me max..."
Opining: maybe this whole affair is to try and drive max into being more "a man".
Switch:? Max goes back to wall st dumps oxbow.
Maggie wants Jay to know about max and let max watch them..was planning on telling him. (Probably became moot after exorcism.)
The exact words of the video commitment to cheat with cole
(...surreptitious, covert and very dirty behavior....fake cheating) very clever cole. Disguise the result with some tempting adjectives on a naive young girl at the time. Besides Max wants her to do things she won't do after marriage..right? But its cool ...Max will never see the video anyway ......oops..
Max's fear:
Leaving him out, laughing at him behind his back, and lying to him.
Maggies fear ...the same?
Then this tidbit from Maggies from "Tempting" : "I may be so bad in ten months you may not want to marry me..." hmmm prophetic?
Several old sayings come to mind for Maggie ..the one I'll share here goes like this...
"When riding on the back of a tiger, don't use spurs."
It was that or "the smiling young lady from Niger"
Cheers!
Enjoyable run down. I'm now wondering what Maggie's biggest fear in this is...
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DeleteI think I can better explain my viewpoint on the Cole = Martin concept. Growing up in a traditional upbringing with a mom and a dad, father's becoming exhibit A to a child's concept of security and manliness/masculinity, and it certainly seems that Martin exudes those traits. Whether or not we want to acknowledge it, fathers are archetypes for how we think of adult men behavior. IF (if being important here, because Maggie might not want this) Maggie is looking for the kind of protection that someone like her father provided at an unconscious level, it would be easier to fall under the spell of a man that shows traits that were comparable. I would think if they look similar too, it would surpass another deeply embedded hurdle towards convincing the hidden parts of ourselves that she's doing the right thing to be safe, because she's found herself in the arms of a protector as she's come to understand the concept. I think we both have agreed, that won't last. She already has a father ...
Delete... Also though, Cole = Martin might not turn out to be a fair assessment. I can see enough differences to make it seem like Cole is only playing at what he thinks Maggie wants, and can be adaptable towards changing that approach. He seems to be more open minded and nicer. But maybe we're seeing glimpses of what Cole might become through Martin. Maybe it's years of acting more professional and needing to be an adult provider that turned Martin into the man he is today, and we are seeing the young adult version of Martin through Cole's character, but that's speculation on my part.
DeleteAll very interesting. I guess I think KT's telling us something about making Martin and Cole act so similar, and I don't think it's because she wants Maggie to marry her father. However, since that kind of thing does happen (not literally if someone needs that said ...) it isn't out of the realm of possibility that that is why she wrote it that way. The parallels between Martin and Carol and Maggie and Cole are strong. Maybe the moral is that we tend to fall into cyclical patterns as a species when it comes to advancing our genes, even though we try to spread out and diversify them as best we can. Max would be more like Martin in an occupational sense, so that's an interesting counterpoint.
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DeleteI know that Cole is both sides of the daddy coin alike in so many charactoristics but opposite in others. Mags gets to choose which parts she wants to keep maybe ignoring the parts she doesn't like (the seduction, the convincing to cheat, the pushing her to lie to max about not having sex with her because anal isn't really sex, and forcing her to break it off with Jay who she really misses )
DeleteSo is maggie building in her minds eye the perfect Frankenstein monster out of Cole. With the lightening bolt having just struck bringing the creature to life. While Igor, the faithful companion, waits on the side throwing switches?
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ReplyDeleteColumbo: "just one more thing."
ReplyDeleteWhat we don't know is how many sessions jay had with Maggie before Max discovered her art work. Is it safe to say two drawings two sessions?. Or did the sessions require more than one sitting. The time frame proir to the peep show is what I wondering about. Jay was already in a full court press by the third drawing so did the bonding start at the second sitting where he gave her his wrestling shirt. Did he make his mind up after the first sitting that he had to have her. She was obviously smitten by the second time to wear his tshirt for the third sitting.
Curiouser and curiouser.
Jay's Character in this Story
ReplyDeleteJay's character is super interesting in this story, because of what he means, what he's affected, and what he could do in the future. It's already been discussed that Jay is the gateway into Maggie's exploration, Maggie says again in the end of Discovering Maggie that Jay, "showed her things that could be hers and that she'd never done," because Jay was the first person to open her eyes to things she might be missing. Jay gave her a new boost of confidence that only a 10/10 person on the catch scale can give someone else by making them feel desirable. Jay gave her the most memorable sexual experiences, but his biggest role in this story might just be opening her, as well as Max's, mind to incredible experiences. I would argue that Jay might have desensitized Max to intensely emotional sexual experiences Maggie would have with Cole because he was a stranger, which when they happened with Cole eventually, might make him believe that they were no different even though signs were showing him otherwise. The fact that they were all friends lessened the blow even further, but that's not the subject here.
Consider how Maggie thought of the parallels of her experience with Jay as she thought of the morals of her actions making good on her bet with Cole, and then afterwards as she continued to play with Cole right afterwards. It seemed to strengthen her composure when she knew she was acting alone, without Max. Max is with her by association of course because he was the one sanctioned all of her acts with Jay and then Cole, as okay. The problem of course is that even though the acts themselves are similar, the person involved is not. Maggie seemed to develop feelings for Jay, well those pale in comparison to what she might be developing with Cole. But since Maggie was able to shrug off those feelings with Jay, she might be feeling immune to those that she is developing with Cole. Acknowledges them and embraces them, but doesn't fear them because she's been able to come out the other side, relatively unscathed with Jay. She has Cole to thank for that, which is another tip in his favor, isn't it?
Jay might have pulled the wool over Max's eyes too when Maggie's with Cole. Max didn't see enough to believe his feelings that Jay was a threat, and since he's out of the picture, I have to wonder if this strengthens Max's belief that Maggie would never leave him for someone else. Max sees Maggie's affection towards Cole, but is able to only believe that this is their mutual friendships taking a more intense turn, Maggie just wants to explore with a person who's more safe. At the end of DM, it seems like Max has finally understood Cole's effect on Maggie, but still seems to be thinking that the intimacy that Maggie and Cole share is not demonstrable of a growing love. Not enough to be concerned about.
Jay Scenarios, Explained Further
DeleteJay's future role in this story is interesting for the reasons mentioned already by everyone here. It's doubtful he gives up on Maggie, but maybe he does bow out, is that still the end for Jay? I think Max might use Cole's reaction to the threat of Jay against him, Jay obviously gets under Cole's skin at least because he's a stranger in their trio, but possibly for other reasons too. Not sure Max is going to come out well on the other end of that. After all, he'll have to admit that A) he knew about Jay that whole time, B) that Cole is also in a relationship with with Maggie. I also think it's possible that Maggie could get sick of the games that Max and Cole are playing, and try to seek a relationship that can get her mind past the hurt that she has begun to experience with the two of them. Maybe it's the Prof that helps clear her senses and think of Jay in more of a relationship light, at the end of the dark tunnel she is currently in with Cole and Max.
At this point, there's enough story between Cole, Max, and Maggie to fill up the rest of the series. But with how abruptly things ended with Jay, how many things Maggie has said about him, Jay's worth and personality, and the involvement of other characters like her father in this story, it makes things, as one poster put it, curiouser and curiouser.
Somewhere along the line this became a finger pointing game rather than sexual fun. Maggie gets hurt cole apologizes doesn't take responsibilty for pushing max into the closet (although he didn't have to push hard.) Instead let's the blame fall on max. Maggie blames herself for cheating then that pile gets dumped on max too. The I didn't really wanna have sex with Jay it was his (max)fault. The max isnt looking out for your best interest with Jay finger in the chest of max.
ReplyDeleteEven Max knowing the reality of the video tape (we thought you wanted this) accepts the blame and shame. Doesn't hold cole accountable for his part. No wonder max is deminished in Maggies eyes.why is he surprised when Maggie starts thinking less of him and doesn't include him in her major decisions until it's done. Also asking for alone time with cole. So max needs to be honest with Maggie next time he's alone with her..tell her that even though he didn't mind her doing those things it was still all on her after all its still her body that being used and abused. Also gotta come clean with the closet and amoire let her know they got played by cole. Oh and by the way it's all Maggies fault to begin with because she had to do the bj on the beach when cole was still a friend and not a predator.
Dang it when's the next book due out?
Ha ha, this is great.
DeleteI'm working on the next book still and I am loving it. Some very fun scenes ...
Waiting patiently trying to avoid the DT's .
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DeleteThe Not-too-Distant Future
ReplyDeleteI've been so caught up in thinking about the endgame of this story, I've sort of glossed over the major events that are about to happen! Maggie wants an open relationship now with Cole, and Max is going to try to make plans for the three of them later that night in the story. What does Maggie's new plan of making time for Cole mean for that evening? Does she want to start spending alone time with Cole immediately? Maybe worse, does Maggie include him because of course she would, but he gets relegated to third wheel status? This question draws back my curiosity on polyamory and if it's possible. At least it calls into question if Maggie is capable of pulling that off, or even wants to when it comes down to it.
I'm interested in a couple developments in Maggie's character. One is it seemed like there was a moment in Cole's reaction to Maggie's Jay confession, that Maggie really liked Cole being possessive of her (damn that was another amazing micro-moment), and Maggie certainly enjoys getting a rise out of her men. With Cole breaking things off between Jay and Maggie fresh on everyone's mind, does Maggie use Jay to egg Cole on like she would Max? Does Maggie try to humiliate Cole a little, and what happens when he gets that treatment? I wonder what truth arises from Cole's intentions with Maggie when HIS personality is cuckolded.
I noted that too but more in a she cheated on Cole kind of way so I get the possessive train of thought. If she goes into cucking cole (which I don't think she will I think she enjoys being his playtoy)Then Cole will go dark and maybe abusive.....
DeleteWhen's the next book due out??
I think she tries it though, if not in the near future, then later on. She has such good, truthful lines to do it, ha! And curious Maggie has seen what she can do with one man she frequently beds, what about someone like Cole? As you say, she does like being his playtoy. For the story, I think it'll take a moment where Cole's pride is tested for him to reveal his intentions, is this a game or is he serious?
DeleteThere are many lessons to be learned in that situation, such that cause Maggie to reevaluate if she would try that out with Cole again.
For giggles, maybe she won't until Jay comes back ... 😊
I think it would be interesting if cole had a chance to see max and maggie making "love" wonder how he would react to seeing the real deal(if it is). So far Max as a result of his own choices had been odd man out. It'd be interesting if max could flip that situation at least once. I mean cole outside looking in. Maybe on a hidden cam or something but observing max and Mags in their "natural state"
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DeleteMaggie - Game of Thrones Dopplegangers
ReplyDeleteThis will be interesting to see if there is any crossover between KT's audience and GOT, ha, but I thought I'd compare GOT characters to characters in Maggie in anticipation of the upcoming finale. Let me know what you got.
Max = Tyrion - super smart, mostly respectable in every way until you have to compare him to other people, then he starts to seem maybe, inadequate, fair or unfair. Ultimately everyone likes him that gets to know him, because he's thoughtful, good natured, and intelligent. Tyrion made a bold move to try to make his life better, to support the strongest woman he knows towards getting power she deserves, but his flaws in his judgment might lead to his downfall.
A bit of Jon Snow too, only so I can picture Maggie saying, "You know nothing, Max Milton."
A bit of Varys too - stealthy, conniving, and at times, you are reminded he may lack genitalia.
Cole - Jamie? Everyone's golden boy, had everything lined up for him, and unsurprisingly, knocked it out of the park. Someone who really sympathizes with Tyrion even when no one else will. Bold, intelligent, willing to plunge headfirst into forbidden love, might even get so caught up in it that it might bring about HIS downfall as well.
Maggie - Can't complete the Lannister trifecta because Maggie does not equal Cersei. I can only think of one solid comparison and that's the mother of dragons herself - Daenerys. A woman born in privilege from an overbearing father, forced to learn how the world works on her own. Smart and getting smarter, Beautiful, brings men the realm over to their knees. Really likes and respects Tyrion, but might not want his council anymore, he's been proven wrong too many times now. Even though he makes sense, she is learning that going against him is proving better for her. Maybe she doesn't need Tyrion anymore? She'll feel terrible for it, even though sometimes she wonders where his allegiances truly lie, but she might like the council of others more, maybe just her own.
Ok KT fans, your move, play along or pelt me with nerd bombs. I'm mostly just REALLY anxious for the next part and the finale this week!
Haven't watched GOT yet hope there wasn't any spoilers in there for when I binge watch It later. ☺
DeleteIn the mean time ...no rush KT just looking forward to the read.
(But inside I'm tapping my foot and twiddling my thumbs pacing the room in my mind when not tapping my feet and checking my watch every few seconds (=everyday) as well as checking my pits for nervous sweat stains.)
😆
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DeleteHa ha, I fucking love this!
DeleteI don't think Cole is like Jamie. Similar in that they are talented and beautiful, but Jamie is also loyal, which Cole is not.
DeleteI would say Maggie is Lady Stark, Max is Eddard Stark, and Cole is Little Finger. "Fun experimenting" would be Robert Baratheon and "terrible decision making" would be the Queen. The white walkers represent their future. KT Morrison is Brandon Stark.
Feeding the sleuths
ReplyDeleteTwo questions for you, KT -
1) Do you know how Maggie will end at this point?
Ok ... 1a) and how confident are you that it will be the true ending?
2) Of all the themes, storylines, trains of thoughts expressed, have we hit on the central conflict, or is there a crucial piece we haven't seized upon?
1) yes, I think so ...
Deletea) not very, lol
2) central conflict? ... I think so ... Yes, yeah. I just realized, there is an exclamation point coming, but all the pieces are already there in previous books ...
This is alot like starving yourself before the thanksgiving feast. The closer we get to thanksgiving day the more severe the hunger pains..
ReplyDeleteI'll bring the whip cream if KT promises there will be pumpkin pie.
Almost in the oven ...
DeleteBad Maggie, As The World Turns
ReplyDeleteJust for the giggles of continuing the conversation and because I am like John above, a little more on the Soap Opera that is this story. What do you guys make of Maggie saying, "I don't want to be bad" to Cole? Obviously part of my feeling about how Maggie has felt about Cole is somewhat related to her upbringing. I think it's interesting how Maggie likes to be bad with Max, but doesn't want to disappoint Cole/wants to be a "good girl." I personally get the nasty heebie-jeebies when I think about the Martin=Cole parallels, It's the same feeling when I think about Daeny and Jon hooking up in GOT, should be hot right? Emilia Clarke and Kit Harrington? But ew. Still though, the need to please her father is part of her eternal struggle, that'll be more evident to her as she persists in her relationship with Cole. I think in that self-discovery, i could see Maggie's relationship she's developing with Cole, strengthening or weakening, interesting to see which it is. Just to be clear, the route where I think it "strengthens" does have anything to do with Martin=Cole in the direct sense. Like I said, ew.
I blame Maggie's awful upbringing for making her want to be so bad. We can discuss what bad means in the context of Maggie and Max's relationship, because that is extremely complicated, but I'll just focus on Maggie's conception of being bad and why she wants to be it. Why the hell doesn't Carol let Maggie know she was an artist in her past? Go ahead, Carol, and assume that the way you live now is the way that your daughter should be spending her time becoming, but for fuck sake, acknowledge where you came from and help Maggie past her current lifestyle. That's still being a bad parent, but Carol can't even give Maggie the decency enough to scoff at Maggie's naivety by saying she's been in Maggie's shoes, too.
So fuck her, how's this for good behavior mom, I just fucked the best man and the groom right under your nose.
I said the path where I think Maggie's relationship with Cole could strengthen once she realizes what she liked with him DOES have to do directly with his parallels to pops, but that's just fake news, I clearly meant it DOES NOT have to do with a direct secret love of Martin.
DeleteIn my effort to degrossify that paragraph I had the opposite effect, because I don't speak English good.
I guess I might as well explain that view. I think that once Maggie realizes she has been unconsciously seeking dad's approval, that'll help all her future relationships.
Awesome. But I have no comment. Will talk later, ha ha ...
DeleteInteresting point. doing what cole wants and getting his approval and admiration equals getting pops approval and admiration which may have been lacking in her youth. Question is will she recognize it too late or just in the nick. If Maggie enjoys that pavlovian style then perhaps max is doomed to stand at the wedding as best man.
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DeleteI can talk myself out of either of these interpretations but here are the two theories (lol what?) on 'Bad Maggie' at this point, in three sentences or less. One theory is a dirty and potentially healthy way of handling how shitty she was treated by smashing all the negative impressions her parents instilled in her with the help people who are truly looking out for her and can facilitate her on this journey. As I said above, mom and dad want to treat her like shit? Well look at what she's doing now. In that sense Max might be helping, maybe both Max and Cole are helping, and, also maybe, Cole might be helping her the most.
DeleteWhat's also possible is that Max, Cole, and Maggie are all misinterpreting how Maggie really feels inside about "slutty Maggie." She gets off on the bad girl treatment because maybe she thinks she's finally being treated the way she thinks she should, like the world is on it's proper axis. Her parents have convinced her of how terrible she is and now someone has brought it to her sex life by talking about how bad she is and she's coming to realize this is the kind of sex she deserves. This interpretation is sad, really dark, and obviously I hope it's not true. In this case, Cole and especially Max are not helping her at all, and when she realizes how painful this is to her heart she might find alternative, and that's where I think Jay might come back.
In this same vein comes the Cole=Martin theory - this one is really centered around Cole and Maggie obviously. That Maggie only really thinks she likes Cole because she might be subconsciously drawn to the type of person he is or acting like. Obviously Max isn't like that, and maybe she doesn't like that fact right now, or at least it doesn't turn her on like thinks this other thing does. It's possible she realizes she does not want that kind of patronizing relationship she might start reject Cole treating her like a 'Bad girl' or being dominant all the time, maybe even reject Cole altogether when she starts thinking about him like her father. In the aftermath of that, would she run back to Max? What about Jay?
Side note KT your getting nice comments from another author and some readers on ohw. Popular writer likes your stuff (then again don't we all).
ReplyDeleteBased on a several fans positing on which popular writer Xleglover might be during his absence. He popped uo long enough to respond with....
"I'm not David McManus. If I picked anyone, I'd be KT Morrison, at least based on what I've been reading lately. All his works are on Amazon and he's prolific, "
Holy shit, that's high praise. I love some of his work, and lurk the fuck out of ourhotwives. You're getting your due, KT! Now if they can just get the gender right!
DeleteIt's a testament to your ability to tap into the male libido that others, even other male authors within the genre, assume your gender.
Random memory - I'll admit there was a time when I was reading KT that I thought she was a man, but (call this sexist) it was the attention to detail to things that weren't expressly sexual, and types of details brought up even during the acts that made me think otherwise.
DeleteAnd then KT straight up said she had a girl crush on Gretchen, lol.
Just funny how the secret world of erotica writing works.
And further comments from one of my other favorite authors (xleglover).
ReplyDelete"I read Losing His Wife 1 a long time ago, but I remember liking it. I really do like Losing His Wife 2, but I think the ending (the last chapter) was rushed. If you haven't yet, you should read the new Maggie series."
Not sure I agree with the rushed ending. Thinking more like you left it at the right momment for a follow up if the mood swings you .. maybe more like Atta gurl keep'em wanting more....lol.
I get the sense when ppl make comments like that. It's more like "awwww.. it's over...??"
I was just going to comment on how thoughtful your sentiments were above when I glanced at the source for the comments and saw it just got interesting. An appeal made by X that he'll continue the sometimes hot but often repetitive and bland "Falling From Grace" epic, in exchange for a sequel to LHW2.
DeleteHow many stories does that make that have the masses clamoring for more? I can think that's all four non-shorts! Haha, we can't get enough!
That's great to hear people people liking my books. I tried to send xleglover a private message over there, turns out I'm a member ha ha, but I've never posted or anything, so I don't think I'm able to send messages yet. Didn't want to hijack a thread about another writer, but I do greatly appreciate the kind words!
DeleteI waffle on the LHW2 ending as well, but I don't see what was rushed. The end was written at the same pace as the rest of the book, and I think I finished Universe before Eternal even. I was writing them at the same time. Perhaps people mean another word other than rushed. Shitty? Better not (wags tiny fist). I had another ending come to me after it was all over and for a while I thought it was better but now I think I still like it best the way it is. I'm rereading it now (how vain!). Just read the scene with Reggie and barely remembered writing it, ha ha.
I think they mean it felt abrupt. You didn't give us the satisfaction of resolving the story's conflict in a conventional way, or arguably not even unconventionally! You just didnt resolve much! Anytime an artist does that it tends to make people think there should have been more to the story, imo. Maybe in state of mind it made some people think it's rushed?
Deletei mean did they ever get the kettle off the stove?!? Did it ever stop snowing!? What happened to Odie and Pippet, did they ever come back in the house!? Mysteries abound
I would love if you shared the alternate ending concept. That's twice it's been mentioned, my curiosity's piqued.
I got such a kick out of the Reggie chapter, Geoff's inaction towards Reggie's misbehavior to Odie was such a neat allegory.
DeleteYeah, I wonder what rushed means. I've heard it twice now. I don't know if the ending being referred to is Universe, or the last chapter on the island. The whole book Universe is an epilog, like 30,000 words gearing down. If it's that I didn't finish the book with more detail about the revelation Nia had for Geoff, then I'm okay with that. That is one-hundred-percent the way I wanted it to end and I can't be shaken off that. I love that I built it up so you know what will happen then I pat you on the butt and say, "You got it from here, tiger." I mean, if you made it to the end of that whopper (and I love you and thank you if you did!) then you fucking know those characters. Have fun with it. What was Geoff's reaction? Fuck, you know what it is. I gotta tell you? You know Geoff like I know Geoff. Picture it. You think his eyes got teary? I bet they did. Maybe pick Nia up and squeeze the shit out of her? Probably. What would he do with Odie? Hug the shit out of her too, I bet. Run out and pick her up right off the beach with Pippet running around him in circles. What would Odie think of that? Some quip I imagine. She'd have no idea what all the fuss is about. No idea dumb old Dad might have thought he wasn't her father. Probably boop him on the nose and say something heart-warming. But are there missed opportunities? Maybe. I do write fast but I did work on it seven days a week practically for six months, so I spent a lot of time planning what would happen. As far as a missed opportunity I thought about later: I considered that Nia going away to open the box and read the report would end with the stab in the heart, finding out Odie was Dino's. Then the rollercoaster would rise again, finding the baby she carried in her belly was Geoff's. It's pretty good, it has a lot of nice little puzzle pieces that all go together very nicely and they've got a lot of symbolism and karma printed on their surface. It made me mad that I didn't consider it more. But now, months later, I think I like the ending I used better. Sure it may be less dramatic, less sorrowful. But you know what?—I bet you I wouldn't look back on the book so fondly. Bet you I wouldn't consider writing Easter Eggs for it because thinking about the characters would make my tummy hurt. I can't say this enough: Writing LHW2 changed me as a person. Affected me and my personal relationships. Made me emotional like I'd never been before. I put so much into that book. So much research, so much thought and planning. No decision on that book's main points was made lightly or carelessly. Fuck, ha ha, here I am getting emotional again on this ... If one didn't like the ending I respect that. If one thinks I crapped it out, that is incorrect. I respect that someone may call it rushed, but I wish I had a better understanding of what that meant. Part of me wants to know so I can be better at this, but the reality is I'd probably just argue, then feel bad later. Wow, all this talk about Geoff and Nia has me wanting to write another epilog.
DeleteDon't change your style at all please! Don't treat us like we're idiots and spell everything out, and only end the stories the way you think is right, there I said it succinctly enough I hope. I think you're right that it sticks with me (only person I can speak for) more because you left me to fend for myself. I desperately want to know Geoff and Nia's future, but, you know, the story has to end sometime, and the feeling is quite strong about their future only because of when you decided to end it. If you resolved everything, I doubt I'd ever think about the ending again, to be honest. Thank you for letting us get more a glimpse of what you put yourself through as you write your incredible work, it's important to understand that there is thought behind every word and concept, INCLUDING HOW AND WHEN TO END THE STORY.
DeleteDon't fret over it you're a great writer. I love the journeys you take me on. The drama and excitmentnyou build up and then build up some more.
DeleteIn the case of "rushed" ...i still believe that's a "I wanted more". More a compliment than a criticism.
stick with the compliment that if xleglover had to be anyone he'd be you. Imitation being the greatest form of praise and all.
Don't fret over it you're a great writer. I love the journeys you take me on. The drama and excitmentnyou build up and then build up some more.
DeleteIn the case of "rushed" ...i still believe that's a "I wanted more". More a compliment than a criticism.
stick with the compliment that if xleglover had to be anyone he'd be you. Imitation being the greatest form of praise and all.
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DeleteTruly spoken above, it really is nice what X said about being KT. And we all want more, which KT confirmed means she did exactly what she intended.
DeleteShe's a force!
Some lines in KT stories submarine my head and assault my psyche, way late. There's a point after rereading many times where overthinking starts happening. I could be doing that, but I could also be finally realizing there's meaning that took me forever to realize.
ReplyDelete"He proved she was worth winning." When Maggie is thinking things over on the ride back to her parent's house from the Poirot. This stung, it was a powerful line in terms of demonstrating the power of the feelings she might have towards Cole, the confidence he draws out of her. But while I initially only acknowledged that aspect of the thought, it's what it doesn't acknowledge that stings harder. Didn't she know she was worth winning from Max? If she forgot, what does it say about how she feels about Max that she thinks that way in that moment?
"I ... I want to make you happy. Right now." This line was from Maggie and Cole walking to Altieri's to meet up with Max. At first it seemed just like a hot little line about some spontaneous passion. It could also prove to be a line about how Maggie feels about Cole, emphasizing the 'right now' part. What's going to happen when the 'honeymoon period' of their feelings starts to wear. Will it ever?
Couple one off thoughts that I've had because these characters live out in my mind. I already talked about Halloween coming up, I wonder how that goes with the trio.
Assuming they make it this far, some wedding planning stuff - I can almost guarantee that Maggie's parents are going to want a professional dance at the wedding, anyone wonder how well Cole acquits himself on the dance floor? Think he might upstage Max? Rehearsal will be interesting ... Also, I wonder how that speech from the Best Man is going to go by the time the wedding takes place.
Once the Lacrosse season starts, I wonder who will have a new Farmingham LAX fan? Maybe two? Maybe the second one is only by association? Sorry, I like being cryptic. I'm saying maybe Maggie starts going to games to watch Cole be amazing at more things, and Max (probably reluctantly given her intentions to want to go in the first place) joins her.
Interesting points.
DeleteI'm still wondering when the best man gives his speech if it will be Max or Cole. Who will put the ring on our little Maggie's finger....
Cole?
Max?......Jay?????
The dweeb from high school? The girlfriend from high school??
Really looking forward to the story no matter which ..just something to keep the jitters and shakes away..
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Delete*twitch* I'm fine, I don't know what *tweak* your problem is...
Delete😇
Maybe it's Satinder, Cole's roommate, who wins Maggie's heart. Dark horse! Ha! She was so careful not to ruin his Xbox controller, I'm choosing to read everything into that.
Well was gonna keep this to myself but since you put your dark horse in the race I'm voting for Jays dad to be the one that walks away with our girl. He does have an open door (heart) policy for Mags. Although Satinder would be the longer shot.
Delete🤔😁
God dammit ...
ReplyDeletelol
Haha, Now I'm convinced she's trolling the diehards, I'm pretty sure that the status bar just moved a small increment, just to fuck with heads.
DeleteKT, gives zero fucks. 😄
Ha ha, the fucks I give are plenty! I updated for myself. Came in here to change the progress bar with a lot of new words done then realized that while I added lots to the next Maggie, I also increased the projected final word count. Disappointed, but I still added the extra three-percent change because it counts as progress!
DeleteAlright everybody calm down, we found her.
DeleteSounds like writing is going well, is that right? Im hoping you take your time!
The last Maggie is going well. Some great scenes, some great conversations ...
DeleteNew header has me curious! An upcoming one shot? Cannot wait! Maybe KT can give us a teaser?
ReplyDeleteJust read all 5 books and I'm gonna rant now because my brain is spiraling and it's all I can do from going crazy. KT Morrison, you are a brilliant author and don't take these ramblings as criticism of you, but of the characters. Trust me, I wouldn't be saying these things if I wasn't completely hooked to this story and didn't loved every second of it.
ReplyDeleteI HAVE to read the sixth book now... That ending was just so horrible for Max (not strictly a horrible ending since it's not over -- just for Max). Just like most situations like this, the blame is on everyone involved but Max is certainly taking the blunt of it. Surprise, surprise, he's a beta male and can't speak out for fear of confrontation.
The last line of the story gives me hope for him, though. It's hinted at that he's a clever guy given the prestigious school and all, but nothing beyond that. Beyond that, he's been pretty dull. It should have been obvious to him what Cole's intentions were in the second book when Max asked him if he would sleep with Maggie and his eyes immediately lit up and his tone changed from somber ("oh boo hoo, I'm gonna get in my car and leave you guys here because this is making me uncomfortable") to very, very eager.
From that moment, he's been forcing his way into Max and Maggie's relationship with just the most juvenile reasoning. Saying things to console Maggie, things like "WE love you so much, WE care about you so much." It's so obvious that I question Maggie's intelligence as well. In what universe would suggesting that Maggie should cheat be good bro advice? She was clearly against it (and least vaginal intercourse), hated doing it, cried afterwards and had a pity party. And if she did like it...well how in the world would that deter her from doing it in the future -- when they're married? Not really how that works...
But here we are and Max feels solely responsible and feels like he needs to let her explore in fear that if he doesn't then he'll lose her. And now she's going to completely switch her education up so she can be closer to Cole and asks if she can be alone with him. Nope. That's one thing Max made clear in their conversation (they're shit communicators like always). Max wants to be there, he told her several times. She cheated twice, though. Holding hands, kissing, cuddling, these things are all cheating to me, even though she seems to only consider vaginal sex as cheating. That night at the restaurant completely 180'd their relationship and by all accounts, it should fail now.
Distance is their best chance. Hopefully the intelligent part of Maggie's brain will see through the things Cole says to her. Realize they are empty words. Men like Cole don't immediately force you to cut things off with Jay but then share you with Max. He wants all of her, he's just cunning. Hopefully she will long for Max, remember the time they spent when they were inseparable. That's their best chance. But I don't think that will happen because Max is scared to distance himself from her.
But I am open to an alternative solution where Max outsmarts Cole somehow. That would be nice...assuming Maggie doesn't make the "alone time" thing with Cole a permanent fixture.
10/10 would get riled up again
Damn good read WA! - I share a lot of what you were upset about with Cole, but I love how unbelievably complicated that whole thing is and I want to see what you think of some counterpoints to this.
Delete'Maggie wants to Cheat' - I agree that Cole isn't necessarily looking out for Max when he is asking to do this, but don't forget Maggie's relationship to them both either. It's a love triangle between the three of them (a romantic form of love now between Cole and Maggie), and so it's difficult to really blame Cole for not justifying in his own mind how this would be good for his friend, Maggie. He thinks she has needs, and Max has already put out to the world that part of him is okay with it, so it's not hard to see the logic leap after those pieces are out there. And here's the thing, Cole was right! If this was about experiences, Maggie sure liked it. Is that Cole's fault then? Truth is a bitch and it hurts, but it's still the truth.
I don't think Cole is a bad guy (or at least a complete sociopath), I truly think KT has whipped a complex whirlwind of scenarios that when things play out, make me paralyzed with a lack of critical judgment in a never ending wave of grey area!!!
Cole freaked out and almost left after the BJ! I read so much into that reaction. I'm always looking for causes, and what pushed Cole down the path he's on, to me is not Cole's doing. How he's handled it since he started down this road is of course his responsibility too, but it's hard for me to hate on Cole since it's been diluted (you would agree) with the emotional reaction to everyone else too.
I have to disagree about Cole's words, I don't think he's full of empty words (yet). We obviously don't know what's in his head, so you might be completely right. I see a guy in Cole who respected boundaries when he had a clear attraction to Maggie for years until his hand was practically forced, I see a guy who actually wants to give Maggie experiences for her sake as well as his own, a guy who wants to have fun and knows when people are having it or what they like, and I genuinely think, cares about his friends and who they are.
Cole is flawed in that he doesn't acknowledge what he's feeling about Maggie or Max to others, can't remain committed to his belief that this whole scenario insane enough to realize what he's doing is bad, and is ignorant (at best) to his deceitfulness and how his advice to one friend is denigrating another friend which could be having terrible consequences. telling Maggie that Max is being too controlling, is that a friend's advice to another friend or just plain manipulation for his own relationship goals with one of his best friends and a woman he's committing to? I think he's convinced he's doing it as a friend.
I think distance is a great thing too for this, I think the honeymoon period might wear off for the two of them (maybe even sooner than Harvard) and why Maggie chose Max might shine through. Remember how quickly being away from Max brought him to mind at the dress fitting? It's possible Cole could fill that void in her heart, but it's also possible that Maggie just needs to be reminded about the best thing going for her love life. If that thing is Max, of course.
I want to see what Max does too! I don't think it goes over well though, whatever it is. I feel like some of things I think Max could do would blow back in his face and might actually be the reason Maggie and Max's relationship breaks apart. I can't wait to find out!
Hey, thanks for the reply :)
DeleteI think you're reading too much into the history between Cole and Max/Maggie. He did have clear boundaries before, even went as far to say that Maggie is like a sister to him. We have have secret desires and don't act on them because it's inappropriate. And we are the sum of our actions. But when Maggie became (suddenly!) interested in him on the beach, that all changed. Pandora's box opened and his secret desires and fantasies came to fruition. Sure, he resisted at first. Three years of disciplining your mind to reject those thoughts will do that to you.
The issue, I think, is you're trying to bridge the gap between being a friend to Max (saying Maggie should cheat) and forcing his way into their relationship. I believe he is doing the opposite of what a friend would do and is masking it in disguise, taking advantage of the naivety of both Maggie and Max. You think there is truth to his suggestions, because hey, she DID cheat after all. You're forming a connection between the act of cheating and the bond between the three of them when there is no connection.
The simple fact is that she just cheated on Max. That's why she was crying. And by doing so, Cole forced his way into this love triangle that they are now in. The road map is clearly presented, and Cole is both the map and the interface.
It's easy to overlook Max in this equation because...well it wouldn't be such a titillating story if he was a bit more open about what he wants out of all this. But there were conversations between Max and Maggie that made it clear that Max wanted to be there. Maggie broke that trust, broke Max's trust in her, by not adhering to what was really their one and only rule. The fact that Max foolishly agreed to Cole's suggestion (which makes for a great scene by the way) is irrelevant. Maggie didn't open the closet door because she was ashamed. As if she had been trapped; a deer in the headlights.
Human beings aren't this foolish. Max and Maggie's minds are clouded with lust and excitement, which is forgivable. But Cole is intelligent and is thinking clearly. Step 1 was to sexually satisfy her, step 2 was to form a love triangle, step 3 was to wedge Maggie and Max apart, and step 4 is to take her for himself.
And all this makes the last chapter very heart breaking for me. Not only did she break their only rule, but now she wants to compound that absolutely monstrous error by spending time alone with Cole. I could forgive the night at the hotel, but not this. Why is she doing this? Because of Cole. If there was a wedge between them before, now they aren't even magnets anymore.
The worst part is that none of this would even be possible without Max. Without Max, Cole isn't exciting. He's attractive but without the angst and jealousy, he's just a guy she knows. Eventually she will realize this. I just hope for her sake it isn't too late.
To extrapolate on why Maggie didn't open the closet door and see Max -- it was because she was the guilty one. Yes, she was tricked. She was likely also mad at Max for that. But make no mistake, she broke the rules, not Max. When a cop tricks someone into confessing to a crime, you don't write off the crime because the convicted was tricked.
DeleteWA - The fact is I might be duped. There's a simple cognitive bias that people have called the Mere Exposure Effect- that just by simply being familiar with something, people tend to start to think more positively about it. If you notice higher in this massive page of text I commented on Cole the manipulator too, we agree on that. I've reread this story so many times that I think I've dulled my vitriol. I was right where you were when the whole thing was fresh on my mind.
DeleteStill, lol, I think that history does matter. We know of Cole's transformation now that Maggie through his lovemaking into the mix, from friend to lover. We don't know how many countless opportunities Cole may have had in the past 3 years to seduce Maggie from Max. My hypothetical is this, if he's that much smarter than Max and Maggie, such an absolute hunk that he is, an expert with women, and he may have always wanted Maggie to himself, why didn't he try anything for years? Inch and inch his way because his desires continue to eat at him to a point where he messes up and tries to kiss her scrambling for an xbox controller. If his long game was to finally get into Maggie's pants, and she went down on him in Rhode Island, doesn't he cackle with glee that he's finally done it under the watchful eye of a friend? I think history matters because I don't think Cole consciously destroys his friendship with Max overnight.
I think there's a cognitive dissonance in Cole's actions, which he has naively tucked away because he thinks he's helping his friends for the greater good, when the fact is he is trying to take Maggie for his own, unconsciously, at least in part. I may be placing too much emphasis on their ages on this, but I DO think these characters are foolish, including Cole. I keep going back to Sharing Maggie and the beach. Cole panics and almost leaves he can't believe what happened. Max was watching them the whole time too, Cole had to digest that he just got blown by a friend while his best friend watched. Max calmed Cole down about what Maggie was doing, and that he was somewhat complicit (though that was something Maggie should have worked out with Max obviously, separate topic, ha!). Having just sexualized his relationship with Maggie, something he wanted deep down, it makes sense to me that a college aged mind might start twisting gears and now Cole is committed to the game of giving Maggie experiences and trying to blow her mind, because hey his friends are on board and god damn it was fun. And Cole knows fun. Why question it? When problems arise just fight like hell to make sure no one complains too much and point to the game as an excuse. He doesn't want to acknowledge the pain he's causing right now because that would ruin a good time, and since he cares about his friends (I believe that he does, or thinks he does), he will hide behind this game as a crutch to protect him from the guilt. He'll ignore his own feelings too, which is why I think it will be really interesting to see if Maggie tries to egg Cole on about Jay. What happens when Cole's pride is hurt, what truth can Maggie drive out of Cole, that maybe even he doesn't realize?
I guess I keep going back to intentions. Did Cole intend to hurt Max and Maggie in this? I don't think he willingly did. The fact that he did and is actively working to commit to acts that will hurt Max (and Maggie too) going forward he is still responsible for, but my passionate disdain for Cole dampens a skosh when I consider his intentions, as well as Maggie AND Max's contribution to those actions.
... but like I said, I'm probably duped.
Deleteditto.
Deletefor.me the Cole issue started with a blow job on the beach but was spitting the sperm in the fire an act act of defiance of some sort? or maybe a burnt offering to the cuckold gods?. or just a means to stink up the beach and force everyone inside? oh Maggie what did you start.
ditto.
Deletefor.me the Cole issue started with a blow job on the beach but was spitting the sperm in the fire an act act of defiance of some sort? or maybe a burnt offering to the cuckold gods?. or just a means to stink up the beach and force everyone inside? oh Maggie what did you start.
Well it's certainly a great cliffhanger. Does Cole want Maggie for himself or does he want to wedge himself into a love triangle (indefinitely)? Does Maggie want to become a lawyer because of the comment her mother made about being an artist in her youth so she can be financially independent or does she just want to fuck Cole with hundreds of miles between them and Max?
DeleteI can't prove that Cole's actions were intentional or not, not really. It's all conjecture. But I do think that this story ends with Max out of the equation, or Max somehow revealing Cole's intentions. He's gonna have to do what we can't.
Max's future in this isn't even tied around Cole's intentions, either. Maggie is just as responsible for everything happening here and I don't see a happy ending for Max even if they somehow shake off Cole. No amount of crying and apologizing can change the fact that she is just a much different character now. That's why getting married young is usually a bad idea..
DeleteI try and stay out of these conversations because I would love to get in on them but forget that I might give something away. Just dropping in to welcome WorldsApart! Thank you for reading!
Delete@ worldsapart
ReplyDeleteit's cool having a new reader pop in and chime in with their perspective and opinions. in this case you're confirming what some of us have been thinking too. question i been asking myself is who do I want Maggie to end up with...Max, Cole , Jay (or jokingly Jays dad) . i think Jay really cares about her in a romanitic way but im not sure they got longevity. Cole may love her for a time but i think he'd eventually cheat on her. Max im not convinced hes the best for her either. Although he would provide the best cuckold experience for her long term. Maybe max is the best option of the worst sorts.
Welcome to the KT fan club...!!
Max is the clear pick for me. The other two aren't even interesting without Max at the center of it.
Deleteshoutout to xleglover for his great story suggestion :)
ReplyDeletewas wondering if we were gonna get any cross over readers from his comments on ohw...prepare to have your mind blown by this author. for me it started with Losing his wife series . I loved hating the villain I hated loving the hero and had the hardest times figuring out which was which. 😊.
DeleteI'm so terrified of jumping into that rabbit hole. These kings of stories leave me so anxious and angry, nonstop, but I can't stop reading them!
Deleteno worries we have an excellent team of rabbit hole extractors.. we often hold group therapy in the blog associated to the most recent story posted. feel free to join and express yourself. idk how KT puts up with us...
Deleteit's like going to a movie after ward discussing what worked and where the sequel would go if there would be one.
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DeleteHi, my name is 2B2H and I've been KThead since 2016 ... ha.
DeleteIf you like this, you'll definitely love LHW, but I think you'll love everything else she's done too, LHW2 is phenomenal too. Other stories you'll like but she hasn't finish are Caymen Proxy (still finishing up), LHW2, Obsessed ( 'Kobra Khan' has the first two parts included in one!). Owing Reza and Reza is Coming might become a series too, fyi.
Her shorts aren't like other authors' shorts, she packs stories in beautifully full of the life you saw in Maggie and they frankly aren't even that short compared to other authors on here! Well worth the read. My personal favorite is Taken 2 At the Combine. I enjoy the idea of one bull complicating a relationship like Ricky, Scott, or Collin has in Xleglover stories.
I honestly cannot think of a better writer than KT Morrison and I'm including Xleglover who is one my favorites too. They're different, obviously you can tell, so comparing might not be fair to you, but they are in a similar vein of writing an, to me, there is none better.
November, 14th! Very exciting! Can we expect a blurb ahead of the launch?
Deletewell put 2b2h... to pile on the accolades.
DeleteI've read Dave mcmanus, arnica butler, kenny wright (love the name play on that one) Kristen Mccuran, Max sabastion, and the list continues including collaborative stories between some aforementioned.
Most of them have good stories some of which were exceptional for me..but kt consistently hits all my wickets. the spelling the grammar and prose. past and present tenses the characters stay in character until it's time for then not to..and then you know Why they aren't who they used to be. I'm not a scholar but I know the difference between a well written professionally done piece and one like I might write for a high school book report.
not to mention the hot action and characters so well developed you feel like you know them personally.
I still feel sorry for poor Pete and his train. I feel sorry for Jess too. Tyler..well he makes me think of things like guns, axes and butcher knives used in terrible ways.
that's my rabbit hole and no I don't want to be extracted........ just yet. 😊
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DeleteEven better put, John!
DeleteBlurb ahead of the launch: not likely. You hardcore types are apt at deciphering my shenanigans. If I give you a week to strip down a blurb you'll have the whole story figured by the time it's live!
DeleteThe accolades: Cheez guys, I can't tell you how much that means. Really. Quenched vanity is more cherished than my desire to sell books ...
DeleteIt really means a lot, and I hear all the stuff you say, and it keeps me typing. (Or dictating, these days.)
Here's a spoiler of sorts, in lieu of a blurb: The next Maggie is around 42k words and it's still not the last Maggie book. One more to go. And I have the ending figured out and am super-stoked.
Wahoo! more maggie,max, Cole and ????..
DeleteDr Frank N Furter said it best ..
"antici....................................
.
.
pation"
@kt accolades you've earned not just given. i don't own a smoke blower.
😁
Thanks so much—I think I'm going to post a teaser and we can move the speculation over there ...
DeleteYes, thank you!!
DeleteReally well put, John C. I liked "characters stay in character until it's time for then not to." It's usually the scene where this happens that makes or breaks a story for me. Has to be believable, and it definitely is in these stories.
ReplyDeleteI've read the Maggie and Reza stories so far, loved both of them. Looking forward to book #6!
Hoping that Max can flex that big brain of his after that last line in the book. It's great seeing these changes in Maggie and how they all tie to her upbringing. Cole seems to be allowing her to push the past into the past, even changing the way she thinks. Loved the scene where she's afraid she's about to be disciplined by her father and then giggles at the thought of Cole smacking her instead. Doesn't even care about walking about the house with him with security cameras everywhere. Publicly gives him head, etc.
I think she associates Max with her past and it'll be important for her to realize he's not.
there's a good point we all may have brushed on but hadn't put a good finger on it like that.. I think we discussed how Maggie had daddy issues and how Cole played into that.. but attaching Cole to a future and max with a past is a very interesting concept.
Deletea novel and cool observation WA.
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DeleteMaggie said as much in DM, saying she was worried that though she loved Max now, she was afraid she'll like the man Cole will become in the future.
DeleteTo me, I've interpreted some of her affection with Cole to mean she is holding on to the negative feelings she's internalized from her family. That's why she asks if she's been a bad girl, a slut, or if she's been a disappointment. In one way of interpreting that, she's weaponizing how she handles being treated like that by turning it sexual, diminishing it's power. I think it could also be said she is misattributing how bad it felt by having it be brought out in a sexual sense. So it takes a man like Max that let her be herself and work out her problems with unconditional support in order for her to get over how she was treated in the past. Still, people don't necessarily fall in line that easily, people can change, most don't.
DeleteTo me, though I know others might disagree, I don't think I've seen enough from Cole to think he couldn't help Maggie overcome her past, too. I've seen some things though which make me like Max better.
What I mean by 'misattributing how bad it felt by having it be brought out in a sexual sense,' by 'it' i mean getting ' bad girl, spanking treatment,' is maybe it's not healthy she has men (and Max isn't necessarily excluded from this if I didn't make that clear) antagonizing a sore-ish subject in her life. Especially never talking about it! It may be that they are really hurting Maggie, and that's why she could end up running off with someone else, say, Jay? 😁
DeleteI didn't quite think about it that far but that's what I mean exactly. The character development Maggie has seen wouldn't be possible without Max enabling this side of her. Telling her it's okay to be bad. He's the conduit. I'm just unsure if she realizes this, it's unclear.
DeleteI'm just gonna cross my fingers and hope Maggie is just "exploring" like they talked about and clever pacing of the storytelling is making the situation look worse for Max than it actually is. Whichever character opens her up more about her upbringing might not even matter, as far as Max/Maggie go.
goodness i can hardly wait for the next book.....still curious as to what role ken will play.
ReplyDeleteThe struggle is real ...
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