I Might Need Help!
Unlike Sanctity, Temporal was not a favourite book to write. You’ll know why when you read it. This morning I started a blank file that will be the last book in the series and now my heart’s heavy knowing I will be spending my last days with a family I’ve grown to legitimately love. It’s put me in a bad place.
Temporal is very dark. But the themes all along have been dark and I have to stay true to the story and all the characters. All of them. The events in Temporal were planned a long time ago and I dreaded the day I had to write them. Going into the next book I know it’s only going to get worse. Why do I write this way? Fuck if I know. I should probably stick with menage stories with French Canadian girls. That story made me happy.
How might I need your help? If you like this book I could do with a positive review if you are so inclined. I anticipate negativity. There are readers out there who might pick this book up interested only in some descriptive hotwife action. They might be angered by what I’ve done. I get it. These books aren’t for everybody. If you didn’t like the book that’s okay, I understand. I feel like if you’re here at my blog though you were already initiated.
I like intense, raw emotion, and I like the idea of wife-sharing. Maybe they don’t mix but I can’t imagine a situation where tempers and passions could be higher. That’s why I write the genre. Maybe the genre isn’t looking for me!
That said, I ain’t leaving. Sounds like most of you want the conclusion of Cayman Proxy after Geoff and Nia’s story is done. I can do that. Wished you were begging for Obsessed 3 but, hey, I’ll finish that one later just for me :)
Interesting post, your book takes a few days to come out in the UK, I'll definitely give you a positive review on Amazon, you certainly earn it with your fantastic prose. In one of your posts you mentioned Netorare, I think this and the final book in the series (Sad face) will explore the more extreme versions or deeper recesses of the wife sharing/cuckolding genre, I read some very extreme work after googling Netorare, not all of it had a happy ending, but it did have an ending.
ReplyDeleteWill you ever go back to Jess and Pete, would ask about Nia and Geoff but that could involve plot spoilers so on and so forth.
Once again many thanks for all you efforts, I can only imagine how much it takes out of you as a writer and a person,
Now can't wait fir Amazing (UK) to get their proverbial finger out.
Paul
Thanks, Paul—only if I deserve it! You haven't read the book yet, ha ha, it might be terrible...
DeleteCan you see it here? https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01MR7BIM8
Amazon's different stores are tricky and I know there's a delay from one to the next but I can see it from my browser.
netorare: I'd like to talk more about it but will have to wait til the story is done because my opinion on it may tip off how Geoff and Nia's story will end. I will say that the trope weighed heavily on my plotting, on the character of Rocco...but, while I enjoy Japanese books, movies, manga and anime, my sentiments are obviously Western and that reflects on the choices I make for my story. There is much I like about netorare but...I'll talk about it later...
And you're welcome for all my efforts, I hope I am at least memorable!
PS-I had thought of bringing back Jess and Pete, even worked up an outline. I was excited about that at one time, however the farther I get from it the more distant it seems. I feel like I might have closed their stroy as much as I needed to. Any return to them would just be a selfish thing so I can spend time with them. I'll definitely feel the same about Geoff and Nia. I already feel the angst as I wind this story down...
DeleteDear god that was a rough ending. I have no idea how they come back from that...maybe they don't considering how you describe what's coming in the next chapter.
ReplyDeleteIt's rough, and I admit I didn't much enjoy reading it, but I view it as a cautionary tale. I've always thought as exciting as these relationships are to read about, they would be disastrous in real life...and your stories play out that way, so there's truth in all the tragedy we're reading. There's room for this among all the consequence free cuckolding stories, and I'm glad you're writing it.
I'm still processing my feelings on all of it...probably have more to say later but I'll offer my thoughts on the end and Geoff's actions.
As a father, he did the only thing he really could do I think; he got his daughter as far away from that awful scene as he could. Once she was safe, he could then worry about his wife.
But was Nia right, did he want her to be punished? I think she says that in anger, and more than a little shame, but was that the manly thing to do? Would Dino and Rocco have done the same thing, probably not right...they would have pulled Maria off Nia first.
I guess there's not a totally right answer for me, as I said my instinct would have been what Geoff did. But those words from Nia, and seeing my wife like that, would have cut me to my core every bit as I suspect it has to Geoff.
I'll be reading the next chapter with one eyes closed probably. I still hope for a good ending, but so many hard feeling are now there, and so many lives are shattered, not just Nia and Geoff but Dino, Rocco and their families. And to think it wasn't the Odie question that did it. That's still hanging out there as a final wrecking ball.
Finally, I'll throw in my support to you going to Obsessed first. I loved how you started that story and have much interest in seeing it continue.
Blah, I know it was rough. Typed through tears on a few occasions. Even reading comments and emails and reviews (Thank you!) got me choked up.
DeleteI'd love to talk about Geoff's decision to get Odie but it comes up in the next book so I don't want to give my thoughts away.
I'm writing the next book with one eye closed...
And thanks for the support on Obsessed. It was fun and quirky and it didn't hurt my heart at all. Although it is going to get more suspenseful...
Really enjoy your perspective JL - I didn't really think about the significance of going to Odie first, other than it being about protecting her innocence and he was too slow getting her out of there.
DeleteYeah, I think he was very conflicted on what to do, hence the delay. But I suspect even Nia will agree he did the right thing, though we'll see in the next chapter.
DeleteKT-- Ugh... That was a tough bunch of scenes to read, I an imagine the anguish you must have experienced writing about these characters. I have always thought you almost consider your characters as a part of your family (I actually thought that was why I always disagreed with you on Taylor's motives in LHW1, it almost reminded me how a mom would respond.
ReplyDeleteBut I digress. The action and pace of this book was really frenetic, my head spun at almost every scene. Jeff just can't seem to find his "inner strength" as a man, I kept hoping he would at each scene, it also seemed that Nia was waiting for it too, although she kept urging him not to do anything until the last scene with Maria (she had her hands full at that point).
So here we are again, with at least 6 lives and 3 marriages in shambles (7 if you include Odie), for whatever reason, Geoff may never recover, and Nia has descended into almost total slutdom and is ready to end it all.
Utter chaos for sure, but as any good pool player knows, sometimes that is just the setup to run the table, one ball (character) at a time. What I mean by that, is that in many cases, when someone is totally broken to pieces, that is when they can be rebuilt into something much better, like the Significant Emotional Event I mentioned in my comments near the end of LHW1. I know you really like the edginess, but there are times you can still land smoothly, instead of landing like a Navy pilot on a carrier... hard!!
But you have a lot of really great instincts in your writing, so don't get me wrong. But you are in a perfect position right now for a happy ending with so many people beaten into the dust as a starting point, that makes any improvement happy in some regard.
Tyler is my baby boy! Ha ha, I sympathize with him too. And Jess. And Pete. You're right, I do see them as family. It's very hard to write scenes where people I love have bad things happen. The first physical reaction I had was in CayPro where I realized that I would have to fire Kiley. All day long I suffered physical discomfort once I'd made up my mind, dreading when I'd sit down and write the scene. This was much worse.
DeleteI'm going to try and run the table, but boy, have I left myself in a bad spot!
As I paraphrased above, it was the worst of times, it was the best of times.... After thinking a bit more and some clearer insight that time always gives, it is a bit strange how Geoff Tries to protect both Odie and Marie's boy (to some degree), but not Nia. I expected he would quickly hand Odie the boy, and then separate the women. He didn't, perhaps due to shock, but maybe to teach her a lesson knowing what she had done with Rocco. Maybe a good beat down will let her have that life changing experience, and it did make her realize the depth she has fallen.
DeleteNot sure she has the strength to change without Geoff, and I don't see how either Dino or Rocco will do anything that will help her break her destructive cycle. I had hope that Dino might become a friend to Geoff at one time, when he helped him escape his wife's wrath after spending the night enjoying Nia's "talents".
I suppose that Nia won't kill or severely injure herself in that ending scene, but she might come close enough that she sees the reality of what she has become (sees the light, so to speak).
Bottom line, I really think your "edginess" as I call it has put you in the perfect position to mold these 6 or 7 characters into what you want them to be, depending on what they learn from what happened between all of them. Obviously, not all of them will turn heroic, but the odds are that a few will to some degree. Hopefully enough to make you smile for a day or two.
Darn fat fingers and spell check. I meant Tyler, not Taylor in LHW1.
ReplyDeleteI just finished Temporal and I can see your position. I, like you, find myself drawn to the visceral emotion you pull from your characters. It is wrenching, hard, terrifying and at the same time breathtaking, passionate and fulfilling. You know your characters well and you manage to draw more from them than so many do.
ReplyDeleteThe pace of this book was nearly manic. You can feel the conclusion building. If you hadn't already said the next one was to be the final book I'd be begging you to make it just that. Not because I don't want more but because it just feels natural.
Neither Nia nor Goeff seem intent on listening to each other. Nina might be close now but she's still just grasping his fear. Rocco and Rico are just fouls at this point for Geoff needing to stand up, but not doing so because he listens to Nia telling him not to. But he doesn't hear her telling him that it IS what she wants. And now after Maria, it might be too late.
But Nia crossed two big lines in this book. Geoff tried to stand up. At home before the wedding and at the reception. Nina didn't listen. I'm awed by the complexity of the weave here.
Nina need to figure out what she truly wants. Geoff needs to step up. I'm sensing the potential for a great ending, hoping too many lives are not ruined in the process.
I meant Rocco and Rico are foils.... stupid autocorrect...
DeleteThank you for the kind words!
DeleteI'd like to have ended it here. It feels like an ending, but in some ways it's a beginning. Or beginning of another ending. Everything being temporal and all, ha ha. There is another conclusion building too, and I hope, as well, not too many lives are ruined...
It does feel like an ending just not the right ending. Ending it now would just leave so much unfinished. Even if you do go with a netorare type end we'd still get resolution that feels missing here. No it feels like something more is there. Questions of how deep Nia and Geoff love each other still linger. Questions about Odie, does Geoff and do we find out the truth? Geoff knows now how Dark Nia is and Now's just realizing it, does she keep punishing herself and make things worse or does SHE grow up. Nina was letting fear and anguish drive that convertible at the end, does she really realize, truly grasp the depths of Geoffs love for her?
DeleteLol, like I said, many questions.
I'm writing some answers right now but it'll be a few weeks before they're ready!
DeleteLol. No worries. Great stories are worth waiting for. I know drawing out the emotion is difficult, but it is rewarding too. Do what you need to do.
DeleteI'll get started on Obsessed in the meantime, lol.
I hope PS is okay, I know he doesn't like the violence...
ReplyDeleteHis absence has been felt! Agreed! I liked his review for Sanctity!
DeleteI'm here, guys. Sorry for not doing any commenting beyond my Amazon review and my remarks of Jan. 20 on this page. I'm going through one of those phases in which there just aren't enough hours in the day for me to get everything done.
DeleteAs for the violence in this story, I think it was the inevitable result of ever increasing stakes in this dangerous thicket of a lifestyle. In some "dark erotica" stories, it seems violence is described in copious detail merely for its own sake. That does nothing for me, and KT doesn't go there in my view.
There are clearly a lot of strong opinions here, but that sort of reaction is the litmus test for good netorare fiction. Nia definitely has some deep-seated issues that are being played out in her behavior with Rocco and Dino. Despite her confident veneer, I think there is a scared little girl inside who is looking for an exquisitely powerful yet very sensitive man to protect her. Unfortunately, these two attributes rarely go together in a single male. She is clearly deeply conflicted, and Geoff's vacillation just makes matters worse.
I do think Geoff's first duty was to get Maria off Nia when the former attacked. In any case, his daughter was going to experience some kind of emotional trauma, be it from the altercation itself or from the physical damage done to her mother. Of course, it's easy for anyone to sit back and predict how'd they'd perform in an extreme situation. In truth, you can't know until you're in said situation. (Something tells me that Maria could have taken Geoff in a fight, even though he is male).
The lid has definitely been blown off this pressure cooker, and I hope that Nia's life is not forfeit as a result. For the resolution of this story to be effective and convincing, I think she needs to be a part of it. Were she to die, I see Dino and Rocco putting both him and Maria six feet under. Their combined passion burns too hot to let such an event pass. Any thoughts on this?
Ok. Did a quick re-read and realized something. Nia has lacked honesty with Geoff recently. Not about what she's been doing but how she's felt during. The last time with each lover, Dino and Rocco, were different. Geoff saw the truth with Dino because he was there, but Nia still held back. With Rocco at the reception it wasn't just sex. That was making love. She participated in it and knew, and hid it. Geoff's first ground rule was honesty. Has she told him off screen?
ReplyDeleteThis last part I think is where the danger comes in. Just as in the first series, attachment, and now after the fight with Maria, she sees Geoff as weak to boot and doesn't feel secure anymore. It's not just about sex anymore. And it was never going to be just sex. Nia is far too passionate for that. Geoff is the nurturer. And if she keeps with guys she's emotionally vested in then Geoff is out. They could make it work if it was strangers. One and done.
I'm thinking Geoff needs to step up in a big way right now.
Absolutely agree that since Sanctity, Nia has decided to let Geoff focus on superficial elements of her experiences with Dino, and now Rocco. Although, she didn't get a real chance to talk to Geoff about that. She can say all she wants that "oh you're the best lover, they are just really hot, masculine, etc." but she knows what she is thinking, and she's not telling Geoff.
DeleteMy question continues to be why? I wonder, in some odd way, if maybe Nia is using Geoff's arousal about other men with Nia as way of getting him to be the man she wants out of him. Geoff is the most aroused and passionate when he is jealous about Nia with other men. She is trying to use this as a means to get him to step up and be the man (or some kind of man) in her life.
I still don't think she necessarily likes doing what's she's doing though. I mean, has Geoff even really investigated WHY she wants to go back to messing around with the Dragonieri's? She says point blank that she could do better than them, so why them? That's the question Geoff has ignored from day one, because he got turned on when she (naturally) got turned on by thinking about her former love of her life (of course she would), and his brother, who might even be more amazing than he ever was.
Yeah, Geoff needs to step up, agreed.
What I'm hung up on is the end of the wedding reception love making. One of the most powerful, and scary moments for me was Rocco confessing and Nia "breaking". I want to know why? Because it signals an end for her that he's too attached ? Because she wants him to be attached? Or because she sees in him what she's always truly wanted and she doesn't know where that leaves Geoff?
DeleteYeah, that scene was interesting. I think she realizes it's gone too far with Rocco in that moment, and that it has to end with him now, but events conspire to make that impossible before she's hit with the consequences of his actions.
DeleteAs to why she doesn't tell Geoff, I simply think again events conspired against it. She gets her job back and Geoff is already angry at her, and she's angry at him. It isn't the place to tell him. Then Maria comes over and hell breaks loose.
I think there is ambiguity about how much she is doing things for Geoff and how much she is doing it to feed her own dark urges. I don't think Nia has fully reconciled it herself in her own mind.
She wants to believe she's doing it only for him, but I think by the end she realizes that's not close to true. Hence, her despair at the thought she has "broken" Geoff. To me this is the biggest sign she wants to be with Geoff, but is now terrified its now impossible for a number of reasons.
Nia knows that being with Rocco or Dino would be bad for her; that it will lead down a dark path. Even though Geoff was also leading her that way, he also provided her with an anchor in the normal world; now that anchor may be gone.
That's why I am interested where she ends up; I'm gonna assume she doesn't go off that curve. Does she run to Rocco or Dino in that moment....what will be their reaction to her appearance, and also to what Geoff did or didn't do to protect her? Messy times ahead I fear.
Well, I feel pretty beat up about this book. This might draw a few eyebrow raises from people who have read my posts to this point (if anyone cared that is). I'm like a living breathing allegory for the theme in this story, when fantasies become reality. This story hit like a ton of bricks, I almost lost my appetite today thinking about it. Kind of feel like Geoff a bit.
ReplyDeleteLot's of things to cover. I want to focus on one of the most disturbing pieces of this story to me. One that I've ignored, rationalized away, and am scared to think about my personal arousal around the subsequent aftermath of what I'll call Nia's 'rough sex interest origin story' until KT sets me straight. I'm calling it that because it makes me feel better about the fact that I've enjoyed those scenes, but I feel terrible now ignoring the evidence in the moments Nia thought about it.
If you don't know/remember what I'm talking about it's the paragraph starting with, "There was a face, a warm and friendly smile ..." in "Last Night" in Montreal. It kept haunting me, but it got tabled in my mind,. However I could not ignore it in "Dollhouse" in Temporal "She lifted off, somewhere dark ..."
Something in how Nia's dissociation was worded in Montreal, I don't know, it made me feel like she was almost referencing a conversation she might have had or wanted to have with Geoff, how stupid. Something happened to Nia when she was younger. Another display of realism from KT, an example of a line she is not afraid to cross, but it's sooo sad. Great writing KT, I really mean that, despite my feelings about it.
I might be being dramatic, because I get the impression that Nia is well adjusted, and over whatever happened, but until it's addressed I can't know that for sure.
One thing I feel like bringing up. I mean I'm glad you say you'll continue doing what you're doing, but this is one of a growing number posts where you've sort of taken an existential step back to what you do, I'm worried about what the future holds because I really want you to continue. Of course this just my humble opinion because you clearly are saying you'll keep going point blank, and I love your candor in these blogs at any moment.
I'm not sure how you top this story, but that's mostly because I'm not you. If it ever gets to be too much, I'd be very interested to see what else you can write.
I'm relating with Geoff a lot too. If it were not for slightly different circumstances I'd be Geoff. That may be what draws me to this story. And why it hits so hard.
DeleteI do relate more with Geoff, a mostly normal guy, just a bit too submissive and giving, no question. I mean I would have some kind of complex to think I was the kind of man Rocco or even Dino was. They are rare breeds. Instead I was attempting to draw a comparison between Geoff's conflicted feelings when he ultimately gets what he wants, and my own conflicted feelings getting a lot of what wanted out of this story.
DeleteI would like to think I would have stood up for myself a he'll of a lot sooner, but then Nia is hella persuasive.
I hear you.I'd like to think the same thing about myself.
DeletePoint blank, I will keep going. When I wrote Pete and Jess I thought there was no way I would top that story and why would I try. But now Nia and Geoff weigh on me, their story is far more complicated and powerful. So, who knows? I'm not going to jump into another one right away, that's for sure. Thinking about it now, I don't think I can do CayPro next, too emotional and too similar. Obsessed might be my game plan. I've thought about other genres too, just to give myself a break. Really strongly looking to change Her 30th Summer into a powerful and very dark BDSM book. No hotwife action though, unless you consider her husband's ghost. Also would like to do a dark romance series. Something gritty and crime oriented, like a bad boy motorcycle romance that makes girls palms sweat. No angst, just straightforward girl falls for bad ass, bad ass falls in love with girl and they are both forever changed.
DeleteAll of this is very exciting - angsty and otherwise! My take, I feel like I've waffled on what I would hope you work on next of your currently unfinished works, but 'Obsessed' seems right to me, like I really want that to get going again.
DeleteI accept your man challenge with your 'bad boy motorcycle romance' concept. We'll see about who's palms sweat!
I should have prefaced "I don't know how you top this story" with, "I know you've done it before, but ..." so yeah, you'll probably pull it off.
Bad boy noir motorcycle romance... I can almost picture it.
DeleteWall-to-wall Dinos, Roccos, and Omars.
DeleteLet me start off by first saying I have NOT read Temporal yet. I've bought it and I will. But unlike most of you that have posted, I can't read the entire book in one setting (for several reasons). First, I like to pace myself, enjoying several chapters at a time, absorbing what is happening and putting some thought behind it. Additionally, I am often times too aroused to continue after getting to some scenes. And I believe the reason for that is exactly what (ToBeToHave and EdwinMullin) have just referenced; most of us that are such die-hard KT fans are so because we can empathize so much with the cuckolds in her story. We have either fantasized about being in their shoes, OR have actually BEEN in those shoes and can relate on SO many levels to the emotions that he goes through. That's what hits home for us (or maybe I should say for ME, if you don't agree). Anyway, I can't wait to dive in this weekend. I'll be a few few weeks before I finish, I'm sure. But hopefully by then KT is well into the next book and I won't have to wait as long as each of you. ;)
ReplyDeleteReport back when you read it!
DeleteKT,
ReplyDeleteOMG how can you leave us like that. The next couple of weeks will be pure agony. The interaction with Maria I didn't see coming though I should have with the tirade at Rocco's business. I do concur on Nia not being upfront on all her feelings with Geoff. The last scene with Rocco leaves the door open for many things to happen.
It was another great read. Please continue the great work and hurry withthe next Chapter.
Thank you!
DeleteOH KT! You wound me, I completely understand how this book wrecked you. God, where do I begin?? First I need to re-read the book (I know as usual right?). I feel, like before, I may have missed something important. As for the book, as some of the other readers have pointed out, yes Nia is being "unfaithful" by keeping her feelings from Geoff. This dynamic demands truth 100% or it doesn't work. If you are a cuckold or cuckquean, there must always be 100% honesty, even if you might hurt the spouse's feelings, they need to know and understand what your thinking and feeling. Once she learned of Rocco's feelings, and knew he was going to make love to her she should have sent him packing. Maybe he was drunk, but she could have used her sexual powers to encourage him to come back another time. For goodness sake it was her BFF's wedding! Did she not stop to think about the implications to Geoff?? She must not loose track of the gift he gives her when it comes to other lovers.
ReplyDeleteAs for Maria, Nia, Geoff & Rocco for that matter should have seen that altercation coming. And why the anger towards Geoff when he didn't rush to protect her from Maria? Why wasn't that anger projected to Rocco? It was his crazy wife who showed up on your door step...plus he was protecting their daughter, which we see throughout the chapters, Nia is constantly putting O on the back burner. Again, you cannot loose sight of those who are most important to you. Why doesn't O come first? Why does she choose to stop and see Dino & stay late at work with Rocco, when O is at home waiting for her MOM! Yes be selfish to a degree, but O will only be young for a short time...she has the rest of her life to experience sexual gratification.
As for the ending....DAMN! As the nourishing person I am, I have to say for everyone to read: NEVER are things bad enough to end your life! NEVER EVER...yes things seem bad right now, but it can and will get better!! I hope, with a talented author like KT, Nia will have a quick thought that makes her change her mind and slam on those brakes! This woman came into your home gave you a beat down in front of your husband and child, go back and give her a taste of her own medicine.
Lastly, the brief glimpse into her history again...leads us to believe that Nia was abused sexually at some point in her life. possibly by her father. The darkness that appears, leads me to believe that she was confused and thinks shes a deviant because as she blossomed and became a sexually active, she started to orgasm from the abuse and she thinks that wrong. I'm not sure and I may be reading too much into it...but that's my impression.
Will the next chapter, if Nia is alive, include some closure for the readers into her past? Why do I think Dino knows the ugly truth? Why would she never share that tidbit of information with her husband? Why doesn't Geoff pressure her to share her darkness, like she pressures him? STOP BEING THE DOOR MAT GEOFF!! Once last question, Why did you skip the night of the wedding when Geoff went back for her? Why weren't we privy to the rest of that night and the next few days??
Please don't leave me Desperately Waiting for too long KT! I beg of you!
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DeleteI've been thinking the same thing on the issue of Nia's father. Her interaction with Dino when Dino brings her father up indicates something, surely. It also indicates what she really needs Geoff for. He's been the only male figure in her life that's ever given a damn about her happiness and well-being.
DeleteThe Odie angle though... for several books now Nia has marginalized O. Forgetting about her except for one aspect. She deeply believes Odie belongs with Geoff, regardless of whether he is her biological dad or not. It's the only thing she's stood up for Odie about so far. It is troubling because here instinct as a mother is subsumed by her own desires. Also, remember since the beginning of the series Nia has been trying to, how to put it, escape the life she's built. She needed to get out of the house and get back in the workforce. Plus KT has pointed out Nia's jealousy of Geoff and Odie's relationship, even commenting on the desire to fight for Geoff's attention. Does this connect back to Nia's own Daddy issues? God I hope Nia remembers that she's Odie's mom. It would break my heart to find she thinks she doesn't deserve her Daughter, or worse, resents her.
I can see the Netorare influences in the story, though I hope it doesn't end like one.
Thanks, DW, for such a great understanding of the book. I can't say too much about what's coming next, I'd like to alleviate concerns if I could, but I want the suspense.
DeleteI'm writing like crazy to bring this story to the conclusion I've always wanted. It won't be too long!
Boy, one of the things you said about Nia up there made me tear a little. Thank you...
DW-skipping the wedding night: I moved past that evening and following days because they had no resoution. I refer to them, from Nia's perspective, as being at an impasse. Geoff shut her out in that time. Slept with his back to her, wasn't talking to her. he didn't leave her, made the decision to stay with her, but in that time nothing transpired that would set them on a path...
DeleteLet me guess. A tear for Nia and Odie? A piece of her life lost that can't be regained?
DeleteI felt that. So sad for both of them.
I love the story, the sex and danger but the mother child aspect hurt my stomach.
This was a masterwork, KT. (Plz. see my review at Amazon for full details). I realize you may get some grief from certain quarters, but I hope you understand that any problems people may have with the subject matter are all about them, not you or your writing. Or so say my three semesters of psychology at university :)
ReplyDeleteIn "Temporal," you give us a lot to think about. Is Geoff being selfish, as he was the one to start the whole wife sharing venture in the first place? When Maria attacked, Nia, what was Geoff's primary duty, given that his daughter was present? I have my own answers to these questions, but I'll address the first one only.
I liken "hotwifing" to handling TNT or nitro-glycerin. In all cases, you're dealing with something highly volatile and dangerously combustible. That's why very clear and thorough rules must be established before you handle any of them. Geoff and Nia did not establish these rules, and they are both reaping the consequences. Therefore, I think both of them must assume an equal share of the blame, notwithstanding Nia's obviously poor judgment and borderline nymphomania. If we turn to Geoff, his insecurities and lack of a grounded self-identity have caused him to send his wife mixed messages.
I agree that the cliff hanger is really frustrating (as it should be), but I'm not worried about that as long as the story is completed. For me, without suspense in a story, my attention span begins to wane quickly.
To sum up, you did an excellent job with "Temporal." (Please ignore the haters. Perhaps you could look at it this way - better you stir them up than leave then yawning and bored.) It was the most nail-biting installment of the series and paves the way for a most interesting conclusion, the details of which I don't dare predict. You also presented us with some real-world moral dilemmas that all of us need to consider and work out. After all, who knows what life is going to throw at us.
Thank you, PS! It seems my worry was for naught. When I finished Temporal I had just written that final scene and I was pretty worked up already when I hit publish. I was so worried I'd gone too far but still 100% believed in what I did. I really appreciate everyone's support.
DeleteI've been thinking about that KT, it seems like you may be underestimating the strong support you have underneath you. Just send out you 'call-to-arms' message in this blog and we show up in droves. I'm calling it now, part 7 will break the 10 review mark. Probably fairly easily.
DeleteThinking more now that the dust of this book has settled. It really is such a beautifully, complicated web that’s been weaved here. Take for example that Nia rightly says to Geoff, “YOU were the one who wanted me to have sex with someone else” which is correct … technically. Nia did prod that arousing feeling of jealousy on though, way back in the beginning. She gets lost in her arousal thinking about the best sex she’s ever had with other men, and she’s broken down and violated the relationship before in pursuit of that feeling again long before Geoff massaged her back after her first night home from her new job. This isn’t as easy as Geoff told Nia, “You can have sex with someone else,” he wants to see her happy and turned on, because it makes his life happier and he recognizes (or is convinced) how he can do that for her through them. It also isn’t Nia’s fault she’s turned on by two of the most amazing men ever in her life.
ReplyDeleteIt’s clear now that the blows that Nia and Dino came to were not because Dino is some kind of tyrant, but because Nia appeared to have driven that from him. Dino and Nia’s breakup appears to be a weapon of mass destruction that Nia set off, a situation in her control and not necessarily something Dino did. That never excuses physical abuse, but the passion between these two gets really primal, she could draw that energy out of any man. I have to believe Dino did something during the course of the relationship to bring her to seek this destruction of Dino, but then why would she like being with him so much, flashback to such good memories, evaluate him so glowingly? She bring up past tiffs, his inability to take responsibility for things and obviously he is a hot head (the reason why Nia couldn’t push away drunk Dino from their home), all of which are cause for concern in a relationship, but what ended it appears to have been a devastating lie. I think we will learn more about this in the last installment.
Geoff continues to present Nia with his ‘woe-is-me’ self. He’s been doing it since Nia told him she innocently bumped into Dino back in the beginning of this story. That wasn’t Nia’s fault, though I still kind of wonder if Geoff was made justified when he discovered she shaved herself, it makes me wonder if she was holding out hope of bumping into him given the circles she knows her and her friend’s traveled in back then. Let’s say he is justified in that, he doesn’t stand up for himself, all the way back then and throughout this story! As beautiful and devoted as he is to Nia, he never realizes that he is her equal in this relationship. She has to spell out for him how much she means to him and how she doesn’t need to have others in her life in Temporal, but he still can’t stop expressing his doubts with no decisiveness in how he thinks they should proceed (at least within reason), ask Nia the right questions when it comes to involving Rocco and Dino again, nor make more of an effort to let the side that doesn’t want to share her carry the moment when it’s hitting him in the face. It’s led to the hottest moments I’ve ever read in my life, but the fact that we don’t know if he even wants Nia to be only with him is proof he still doesn’t know either, Nia is right to be frustrated in that indecision. Meanwhile, here are two irresistible options staring you in the face, proven men that make you feel safe and more alive than you were moments before they were present. It takes a stronger willed person than most to turn that down.
The blabbering continues -
DeleteI think Nia’s childhood plays into both her sexual energy, and her struggle to keep peace in her life. She is clearly someone who has made massive strides to being a great person despite having her innocence betrayed by an abuser, but that horror can project onto your other relationships uncontrollably. This is fundamental faith in humanity being destroyed in what I (and others) think might have happened to her, and you don’t necessarily have control in how you’ll react after experiencing it. I think we can see what things serve as triggers to bring out these thoughts in her. Some have alluded this abuse to be from her father, because of Dino’s statement about him (I think). I think that makes the most sense, but it doesn’t make sense why Nia so innocently said in previous parts of the story that she disappointed her father when she became a teenager, and compared Odie’s future with Geoff to her father and herself. If he did what we think happened to her, how could she even dare compare those two men? That makes me think someone else violated her in the past.
I think her abuse also plays (as others have mentioned) into her desire to seek security. Throughout this story, Nia has felt guilt wanting the kind of sex she wants out of Rocco, afraid to reopen pandora’s box, she wants it rough but feels guilty about her desire for it and wants Geoff to be able to help her feel better for getting it. Geoff shielded her from the world for years, let her live a surreality that included an innocent look at childhood. Stable, normal and even fantastical with his creative mind as a writer. She shouldn’t be afraid of her past and she learns that and makes the move to get out and be herself. I do tend to think it was mere coincidence that Dino and Rocco came back into her life, but her new life has presented her with the real possibility that she doesn’t need to be afraid about anything anymore.
As safe as Rocco may make Nia feel, it’s Geoff that has primarily been the person who has helped her to flourish, and bring her own sense of self worth out of her. I think it’s important that he says to her that “you wanted this too” whenever she tells him that he wanted this for her. He lets her make her own decisions, even though he might be hesitant or even not like them. He gave her a gift that symbolizes female strength, because he respects her at the end of the day and is awed by her power. However, he obfuscates that when he tells her he wants her to go back to working with him or building the metaphorical moat around her by choosing an island cottage (I haven’t forgotten the line “this ogre could swim” though, should he think he is safe at that cottage). He also confuses being there for her, when he let’s her be free. She needs him to tell her that she needs to be more careful having the kind of sex she wanted with Rocco, and press her as to why she wants that so badly. She needed him to stand up for himself when he felt wronged by these other men in their lives.
Blabbering concludes-
DeleteWhat I’m terrified of in the next installment, if Nia should get into a serious accident, is it will cause everybody Geoff and she have ever known to ponder why she would be so careless, tempers will rise and fingers will point (unfairly) at Geoff for not being enough of a man for her, for driving her into the arms of another man, tearing lives apart and damaging her better judgment. Nia will know it isn’t all his fault, and will realize how bad of a decision it was to let the Dragonieri's into her life, but the thing I don’t know is whether she will come to terms with that knowledge and want to work it with Geoff, or if she will conclude there was a reason she wanted to go to Rocco in the first place.
The main problem in this story has reared its ugly head, the effects of making your fantasy a reality. Because Nia has got Rocco and Dino involved in her life again, they aren’t just content in zipping up their flies and “see you next time," they aren't Atticus (KT - please know I want that series to continue), they are now going to exert effort to keep her in their lives, as permanent fixtures. I am nervous about what will happen next because all of them will be probably be very possessive.
The song ‘All of Me’ may never be heard by my ears the same way again. I’m glad I never seek that song out in my life normally!
More needs to be said, because Odie is Geoff’s daughter more than anyone else’s. I can’t reasonably conclude that Nia can do anything other than let her continue to be Geoff’s daughter, but children more often than not have to face whatever reality their parents present them with, and if she isn’t his biological daughter, who knows what that does to him, to Dino, to Nia, even Rocco. More also needs to be said about Nia’s lack of communication with Geoff, but I want to make clear that I agree with JL that she hasn’t had the opportunity to talk to Geoff about Rocco and her at the wedding.
Thanks for reading any or all of my ridiculously large spiels.
Excellent and well written.
DeleteThe more I ponder on this book, this series, the more I find. You've presented some great thoughts. This book may be KT's least favorite but I think that may be doing it a disservice. As PS said it is masterfully done. And you just pointed out why the series works so well with its complexities.
Well done!
I do think one tragedy we may be forgetting is Nia's jealousy. If she chooses Rocco, will she allow Geoff to move on? Will she still cling to Geoff never allowing him to find happiness aside from Odie? Or will she keep being the hypocrite of the story?
DeleteThanks for the kind sentiments EM! Nia's jealousy is something I've forgotten about that I will be looking at in the next part.
DeleteKT. You are an amazing author. I just finished LHW1 and now Temporal from LHW2. What I don't understand is why you are so dark. What would be wrong with letting them be happy together? Why do you feel the need to destroy the husband?
ReplyDeleteLHW2 was really shaping up well IMHO. Geoff and Nia were going to make it until Dino showed up. Why can't your husbands have a little bit of a spine and have Geoff send Dino away? Even if he had to call the police. The police should have been called on Rocco at the wedding.
Your stories are unbelievably well written and emotions evoking. You provide such great roller coasters and that is why I read them. But in the end I am just absolutely sick to my stomach when you end them with such negativity. I am not sure that I can emotionally afford to read your stories if at least some don't end well.
Let me talk about Nia for a moment. I was not ready to hate her through the first 5 stories and most of 6. She seemed to get it. She seemed to really really love Geoff. But when you love someone that much you can't just turn it off and drop them the way she did in the end. When he left the wedding, realizing how much she had hurt him, why didn't she rush after him? Why did she blame him? Why? Because she doesn't really love him and is just using him IMHO. She is a pig of a woman. Why are your women always such pigs? Now it is going to be very very hard to redeem her.
The flaw I see in your story is how fast the Nia goes from a loving wife to a hateful witch and the fact that Geoff has such mental instability as to not be able to stand up for himself some. That he will let his wife run over him to such extremes.
Jess and Pete are another example. The best line in the whole book was when he said she was a poisonous cunt but immediately retracted from it. She was. She dumped him and he needed to get on with it. He could have come around but only after she tried to make it up to him. Men are not that weak. At some point all animals, when backed into a corner, will fight back but you never let your husbands do so.
So again... such incredible writing skills you have but the story lines have small flaws that if they where corrected would make for extremely brilliant stories. They don't all have to end up happily ever after but they don't all have to trash the husband either. I anxiously await the conclusion to LHW2 but I am sure that I will be extremely pleased with the writing but crushed by the story ending. The husband and wives crying together for the hurt they caused each other and coming back together can be as satisfying to write and probably more difficult to do so. But you have the skills to do so.
I too like the intense raw emotion that you like and I believe in wife sharing but it does not have to destroy the family. It can go through all types of ups and downs... it just doesn't always have to end negatively. You are extremely good at it so I hope you can modify you ride and end on a high note sometime.
As far as a review goes, I will leave a positive review even though I absolutely hate the story right now. But I believe the review should be about the quality of the writing, the faithfulness of the characters to the story line, the realistic portrayal of events and happening, and the amount of emotions the story brings out. Regardless of what I think of the story, you have nailed all other aspects of the review.
Bradley - I like your reviews on Amazon you're one I look for when it comes to stories. Good on you, but I think you're a bit harsh on Geoff and KT. I'll focus on LHW2 because I think she did a fantastic job of making her infidelity gradual. What's unclear to Nia at this point is whether Geoff is into this all the way or not, but that is because Geoff still kind of likes it, despite himself. The reality for Nia and Geoff is, they had to rule out Rocco and Dino from the beginning, but Geoff and Nia were too aroused to ignore that thought.
DeleteWhen he knows she loves him so much you can see why he would agree to getting Rocco involved. I think it's brilliant writing that she went with the brother of her former lover who is also her boss. I think this because Nia has a prior emotional relationship to him, and she is around him all the time to develop a stronger bond. I think it's brilliant that KT also includes her ex in this for their intense past. It makes the breaks down of that barrier from being the faithful wife to hotwife, which I thought was brilliantly well paced considering the constant badgering of Geoff, much more believable. I think it helps explain the transition. Is Geoff spineless? I agree he is, but has made headway in this story. Going from shock and awe when he saw Nia with his own eyes, to "I'm worried and we should maybe stop this," to "find your own way home" "baby come home with me" It's headshakingly upsetting, but it's like any good drama on t.v., it keeps me interested for the next episode because I'm so mad at him right now, among other reasons.
Why I love her stories is because she is writes a completely different perspective and doesn't care about how good or bad it ends. LHW was mostly bad, but it ended up where Pete defends himself and the strong possibility he will win her back. I think Geoff is ten times the man that Pete was, and I think we'll see him make a move in the last part.
What's beautiful about KT's writing though is that might not matter. It's all about what makes sense out of the end of the story, not necessarily about righting any wrongs.
I know you agree she is a great writer too, so I'm not trying to say you deny any of the above, but I think what I mention helps explain how both Geoff and Nia have developed.
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DeleteAgreed. If Geoff steps up it may just be Rocco as the tragic figure here, as KT may have hinted at earlier while talking of netorare influences on writing the character. I'm starting to think about the hunting rifles we saw in th visit to the cabin and am hoping they were not foreshadowing.
DeleteTo be = to have.
ReplyDeleteI was not intending to be harsh on KT. I think the writing is brilliant. I just wish I could fall in love with her wives and be happily satisfied in the end. The emotions from me are brought out by KT which is a reward for her writing.
I think this story is absolutely wonderful but it tears me up and has me wanting to scream out and throw things. That is a brilliant author and work who can make a reader behave that way. So while I absolutely hate where this story has gone... I don't mean it to be a reflection at all on KT or the story itself.
I find it interesting that you think I was too hard on Geoff. I barely mentioned him. He has been spineless. He grows a little and then falls right back under nia's spell when she pushes back just a hair. He already knows that Nia can't handle Rocco or Dino. Rocco physically assaulted her in the rain. The way he cares about her I would think that would infuriate him, and while I don't expect him to physically take charge I sure as heck would have called the police at the wedding. As far as Dino goes, not only was he a threat to Nia at the time but Odie was in the house and I would have expected him to lay his life on the line for his daughter.
So can you explain more on why you think I was too hard on Geoff?
As far as nia's infidelity being gradual I disagree. It started about 8 years ago or so if Dino could be her father. That's not gradual. Also, she starts out holding back info from Geoff pretty fast and while not physical infidelity that's even worse in my opinion.
The one gripe i do have about the story is how weak Geoff is and how fast Nia gives way her agreements that there is a problem after Dino or Rocco show up. Does this ruin the story know. Just something I point out because I think it will make KT even better.
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DeleteI think lack of spine regarding Geoff with Dino's drunken visit ("Why can't your husbands have a little bit of a spine and have Geoff send Dino away?") is what ToBe was referencing? I get the point you were making and you were right. But keep in mind he did push for it. He's walking a razor thin wire here. Does he push harder to get him out of the house, which Nia never should have let him in regardless or especially because of how violent he could get, or does he keep trying to keep his wife happy? Geoff's sole motivation is the feeling he has of inadequacy. The only time he feels relevant in his wife's life is when he's there to pick up her pieces. the thrill and excitement he gets later from sharing the misadventures she describes just adds to it. Neither one of them is thinking with their right mind. Geoff is so desperate for her to find fulfillment and happiness that he caves to her pressure despite his worries. Truth is neither Rocco nor Dino should have ever set foot in the house to begin with. Slippery slope. I know that feeling of loving someone so much you are wiling to overlook the rational. It IS weak. That is the point. And it does happen, I can attest to it. It takes a strength of character to admit that there are some things you can't and never will be able to do for a lover. That's not where he's weak. As you say he's weak for not standing his ground. And I'm thinking you are right.
DeleteBut all of that is what makes this a tragedy. It wouldn't work nearly so viscerally if they acted differently.
I guess I took your association with LHW to be a comparison between the two of Geoff and Pete, who I think was a lot worse than Geoff. Otherwise I agree. You might not have been doing that so I don't mean to put words in your mouth.
DeleteI also agree that the lack of communication has been terrible, all around, and they both get what they deserve because of it. I think there is plenty to go around in this mess!
I'm not expecting a happy ending out of this either.
As for the gradual infidelity, I meant in the storyline. The pace of the story.
DeleteGreat read EM!
DeleteTobe. I did mean a small comparison in that KT's men's are week but Geoff is no doubt no Pete when it comes to that.
DeleteEM,
Delete"I know that feeling of loving someone so much you are wiling to overlook the rational. It IS weak. That is the point. And it does happen, I can attest to it."
I think it is more than that. It is codependency which is really really unhealthy. I agree that some is him wanting to see her happy but walking out at the wedding and then going back is codependency. He is more afraid of losing her than standing up for himself. That is a mental deficiency and unhealthy. And yes, I have been there done that.
Your take in you post was excellent. Wanting the best for you spouse, even at your expense, is not weak. It takes a strong man to do that. So in some regards he is a very strong man but he is weak when it comes to standing up for himself. Letting Nia have Dino and Geoff IMHO is not necessarily a problem. If that makes her happy then I would want that for her. But letting her get out of control and damaging your relationship and putting you family at risk, when you recognize it is weak. It is even weaker when you start to stand up then wilt like a flower at a raised eyebrow.
I also think it is weak letting your spouse, and god forbid, encourageing your spouse, to do destructive things. First time with Dino and Rocco OK. After a while it should have become clear she was on a destructive path. After Rocco asaulted her he should have never ever let her be anywhere near him. After he found out that Dino punched her never ever again anywhere near her.
Those are my thoughts on weak vs strong and when it takes place.
Yep. We are on the same page there.
DeleteAll some really great, thoughtful commentary over these past few days.
ReplyDeleteOf course, I have a few to add to the mix. I do agree that both of KT's two LHW stories start out fairly mellow, with a couple that have been married a while with children, that start to take a walk into a hotwife experience. In both stories, KT sets up the characters really well and we readers tend to develop a lot of sense about what they are about, as KT leads them down a path ending up in emotional turmoil and towards the cliff of total relationship destruction.
That's where we are now with LHW2 (with 3 couples this time!), and where we were in LHW1 when Pete smashed the dashboard of his car in the hospital parking lot. I must admit at that point I had lost all hope of any good ending. Now KT did craft a "semi-happy" ending, with Pete showing some real strength and courage. I would have preferred an Epilogue showing what happened a year and maybe 3-5 years later, maybe another 10-15 pages to see if Pete remained strong, and whether Jess recovered enough to enjoy a future life with her family after such an ordeal.
I think that LHW1, showed Pete initially as pushing Jess into the hotwife and even asked her to humiliate him at one point. Once Tyler took over both the Jess/Tyler relationship, and began urging Jess not only to humiliate Pete more, but then began to actively destroy Pete and his relationship to his family. While the pace seemed frenetic in the story, it actually happened over a fairly long period of almost a year.
LHW2 is a much different story from a character standpoint. Nia wants initially to just have other partners, the humiliation part was really never requested by Geoff, and Nia just started doing it when she started running around with Dino too.
I do realize that I jumped over a lot of the effort that KT put into the story to understand these characters. From a "traditional male" (whatever that is, if there even is such a thing), it does seem that Geoff (and Pete) would seem weak from that paradigm, and I struggle with men being that way, but I have seen weak men (and women) that will sit back and put up with a lot of things that I won't for quite a long time.
However, I have also seen some of these same people that I considered initially weak do some incredibly courageous things, risking everything to save people from great danger.
Bottom line...KT does a some of the best work I've ever read in the overall character and story development, almost unbelievably good at times. As many of you know, I like analogies in my descriptions, I would put it like this... If KT were an Olympic gymnast on the uneven bars, she always gets a 10 on the main part of the routine. In LHW1, she got an 8.5 on't the landing, just a little step after she hit.
I think she is going to "stick the landing" on LHW2!! I know she is capable of it.
Just one other comment. If KT can figure out how to combine the edginess (that we all love when she develops the characters), and combine that with good, hopeful endings, her readership will literally explode, might even reach the top spot. She is that good.
Guhrka,
DeleteI think this is a brilliant post. A couple of things however.
I don't see LHW1 as any kind of a happy ending. Here family was destroyed and she was pregnant by an ass which could never be undone for the rest of her life. I hope for mischief better in LHW2 but I am very very fearful of such happening.
As far as weak goes. I only ,wan that in the since that they are totally weak in the relationship with their wife. They could be a navy seal in the rest of their life. The two do not necessarily relate with each other in my mind.
My first marriage was a disaster because I was so codependent in her I was more afraid of losing her than I was of the crap she threw at me. Once I got out and understood, I also realized I could live without her, my whole life changed. Now, becasue I know how destructive to a person it can be, it makes me sick to see it happen.
I love your analogy. It is perfect. I hope we can at least get a 9.5. To follow your analogy, I think it was akin to a floor exercise where the gymnast stepped out of bounds several times or the balance bean where the competitor fell off the beam.
They both got back on and finished but the score reflected that. What we have now is a wobble on the beam but the gymnast is still on. The question is can she regain her balance or is she going to fall off?
Bradley-- I really don't see what's happened so far in LHW2 as anything short of perfect in the way KT does things. I believe she intends to have the chaos and extreme emotional pain for her readers to experience because she inserts herself emotionally in the interplay and relationship (and destruction thereof) of her characters. It is as if they are almost a part of her family and lives the pain with them.
DeleteI know that sounds a bit wierd, but I sense that is how she makes the magic happen. And I think her technique works, how many books have you read in the past year that people are still discussing the characters and the relationships a year later. In my case, it's over 200, in genres from Steven King to biographies to Lee Childs (Jack Reacher) and others, and I rarely talk about any of those for over a few weeks after finishing them.
I really would give KT a 10.0 so far. While there are some situations I can't relate to very well as the guy I am, the emotion does come through for me. And I am not a Russian judge either.
Anyway, still waiting for KT to stick the landing on the ending for LHW2.
Others out there. What rating (0 - 10), would you give KT so far for LHW2? Also, if you feel like it, rate LHW1 both for the main story and the ending.
The level of discussion here has been nothing short of amazing. I hope KT takes this as proof of her skill. Not many authors can inspire this level of discourse with their writing. As for rating I'd say a solid 9.8, based solely on some artistic and execution issues that bug me on a purely minor level.
DeleteI couldn't give KT anything other then a 10 for both LHW1&2. I also await the CP7 book, but that woman is not on the same page as Jess & Nia, no honesty she's not sharing she's deceitful....but I still want the next chapter. Hi my name is Desperately Waiting and I'm an addict please help me!
DeleteDW - the first step is admitting you have a problem, the next step is to bother the source until they support your habit.
DeleteI think I would have given LHW a 10, but it has been so absorbed in the shadow of this story I have to remember how I felt when it came out to think about it. I remember thinking it was the best thing ever written (not really, but almost) at the time. Still I have to set LHW2 as the standard because of how amazing it has been to me. If this is a 10, then LHW is a 9. She's changing the metric! At this point next year LHW will probably be an 8. Five years from now we might be petitioning her to remove the story! (Don't ever, please).
Guhrka.
DeleteThere are not many authors I agree. The on,y other one in this genre that I am aware of is David McManus.
I want to clarify. Just becasue I don't think the story is a 10 doesn't mean I don't think the characters, actions, and outcomes aren't a 10 in the way they are developed and written. KT has done a magnificent job. My rating is based upon the outcome that would have made me happiest.
DeleteWhen I review and rate stories I based them on the quality of the story and h]the writing... not whether I liked the story or outcome. So I have 2 rating systems. Quality and like. It can be a great story, well written, and yet be one that I do t like.
There are many authors that I like their stories better because I get the outcome I want... but I would read KT's before theirs becasue she brings out much more emotions in me and therefore overall makes it a much more rewarding experience. However, sometime, the experience can become so negative to me that I just can't take the emotional turmoil. Just need to get away from it.
Hope that makes sense.
Makes sense to me. I go for the most emotional impact. Shocking me for shock's sake, is not going to do it. Feeling so drawn into the story that whatever happens to them physically effects me is how a good story should be. That's how I came up with my 10 score.
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ReplyDeleteKT
DeleteYou are the best writer in this genre. Your ability to develop and evoke emotions has my mind constantly wandering to your story lines and superimposing my own reactions and outcomes. It's deliciously addictive!
I guess inherent in this genre is the weak male. Why?! These sad and pathetic husbands are portrayed as such emotionally damaged people that I really can't relate. I yearn to read of them asserting themselves. Don't burn the b but at least leave or yell or let these guys experience wanting to hurt, getting revenge. Why can't we see more remorse from the women? Feel their pain at losing a husband by their actions?
Maybe I'm in the wrong genre. But I was sincere when I said how talented I think you are. No other author incenses me the way you do. That said, I will think carefully before reading about Geoff or Pete. They just piss me off - but I will at least start.
Thank you and don't get too down by negative responses. You are a treasure.
MW,
DeleteDon't give up. Yeah they piss me off too but the stories are so good that they are definitely worth reading. Just don't throw things around like I wanted to.
Top 10 List - Top 10 "Thinker" Nuggets
ReplyDeleteThese are my favorite lines in the book that made me stop and think. What qualified here were things that were said or thought that had multiple meanings (or at least how I interpreted them). I left out Odie's room, which had so many elements of double meanings from the paint job down to the reading lamp.
Let me know what else you guys think!
10. “I need you, Geoff” “I need you, Daddy” Chapter “Cherry Blossoms” - Cherry Blossoms. Small innocent moment before the family goes to the park to see what is symbol of change, hope and life anew, both the loving females in his life tell Geoff they need him.
9. “Are you afraid of the dark?” Chapter “Cherry Blossoms” - Cherry Blossoms. Odie is hunting through old stuff This one seems kind of meh, but reading it over, Odie asks her father if he is scared of dark shortly after she tell’s him there are lot of memories in an old crawlspace. Should we be afraid of the past?
8. She felt like she was back. From where she didn’t know …” Chapter “Job Interview - Cherry Blossoms. First sign of trouble for the future of Geoff and Nia, Nia is very pleased to see Rocco, and is happy he is pleased to see her too.
7. “Yell at me?” “Don’t fuck up and I won’t” She held his gaze …”I don’t fuck up” Chapter “Job Interview” - Cherry Blossoms. I only think this took to mean anything now. She’s now seen Rocco’s wrath and never wanted to make him upset throughout this series.
6. ‘…a big story about a princess and a prince who was supposed to protect her but he built a moat …” Chapter “Bachelorette” - Bachelorette. Geoff learns from his wise younger daughter, that sometimes the big Ogre is smarter than the prince.
5. “Who was that?” “Who, Sweetie?” “That tall man.” “No one, baby. My boss’ brother” Chapter “Lake Mishigekegwag” - Montreal. Odie is nervous when she sees Dino. That is innocent enough right?
4. ‘She leaned to help herself up with one hand, saw cherry blossoms on the white sheet.’ Chapter “Last Night” - Montreal. Blood on the sheets a symbol for the passion displayed, an awakening in Nia.
3. “…baby, that’s what I wanted … you gave it … to me …” Chapter “Loving His Wife” -Kaleidoscope. Coming home and feeling a little guilty about herself, especially after how Rocco treats her, Nia needs Geoff to come inside her. It took me a couple reads to realize why this sounded a little awkward. Then when it dawned on me, it couldn’t have been said any better!
2. ‘Couldn’t you have helped a little sooner?’ Chapter “Reggie” - Sanctity Odie let her father know she was upset that her father didn’t do anything to make Reggie stop annoying her. Hint, hint, nudge, nudge Geoff!
1. ‘It broke her. Broke her in two.’ Chapter “Union" - Temporal. Nia, after experiencing being making love to Rocco for the first time, she thinks to herself he did the one thing she thought rough sex would do, break her in two.
“I guess I fucking do, Nia. You know how I can do that? Because I know right from wrong. I don't know what the rules are but I know when they're broken. I know it when I see it.” Chapter "Transitory" - Temporal. Geoff after Nia claims she doesn't know the rules. This is so true be cause she knows she is over the line big time and is trying to deflect blame.
DeleteYa know... I've been thinking about this last post here, Bradley. Nia hasbeen deflecting all series long. Geoff called her out on it a few times but for the most part, it's her shtick. A defense mechanism for sure. Related to the possible abuse? But all series long its been one deflection after another. Until the end of temporal in the car. Does she finally see it?
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteTen Shocking moments in LHW2 (thus far)
ReplyDeleteSame with the other list this is in chronological order of the story. Here are 10 moments in the story that shocked me. These are moments that abruptly changed the direction of the story or otherwise blew my mind. I know I left a lot out, so I'd like to know what others thought were big time moments in the story.
10. Nia cheated on Geoff - We’re barely off and running and we learn that Nia’s passion for the Dragonieri’s bled into Geoff and Nia’s relationship.
9. Nia tricks Geoff into believing she sucked Rocco for her job. I honestly felt like Nia had actually done it, given how the ‘Nia’ section concluded leading up to this moment. Things were learned after this moment.
8. Nia admits she slept with Dino when they were married.
7. Rocco says that he knows Odie is not Geoff’s daughter.
6. Geoff gets a nice birthday surprise that ends in overwhelming fashion.
5. Dino beat up the stripper and passions reignite at Station 455.
4. Dino shows up unannounced and takes Nia.
3. Nia starts to be comfortable with openly humiliating Geoff alone and then with Dino, maybe because of her jealousy and/or Geoff’s prodding (or other feelings?).
2. Rocco interrupts Donna's wedding and makes love to Nia.
1. Maria shows up to smack a ho, leading to the joy(less) ride cliffhanger.
Maria I was expecting, honestly. I frankly more shocked at Nia's reaction to Jenny kissing Geoff.
DeleteEM.
DeleteI agree that Maria I think was a given when she first started and then confronted Nia at the office. It was idiocy for Nia to continue with Rocco with that threat because she should have seen it as real and physical. Guess that tells us how low Nia had sunk to do that.
I had not really thought about Nia's response to Jenny. Maybe it would do Geoff some good to play it up a little and give Nia some of her own medicine since she doesn't seem to get or care about Geoff's ultimate pain. Yeah... he is asking for part of it but it's the cheating, deceit, and holding back on Nia's part that is the problem for me.
Isn't that wat he did with the silent treatment for 4 days between the reception and the book release. It's passive aggressive for sure. But still. Overt is more necessary with Nia.
DeleteOver explanation post - that list does not comprise of just things that surprised (I think we all saw Dino and Nia coming too), but were pivotal moments to the story and were jaw dropping, Nia getting her ass beat definitely fit that bill. Any other major moments of the story?
DeleteI feel like the 'fight fire with fire' idea would backfire on Geoff, Nia is on a whole other level than Geoff. Plus, I get the impression she only wanted to be shared because it was the Dragonieri's she wanted to get with. If he makes her jealous on purpose, it would just push her away into Rocco's arms even quicker. My opinion on that.
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ReplyDeleteKT - you are a talented writer. I have only read the first losing it series and your comment at top about the dark books tearing you up. Perhaps you have done this and can direct me but if not here is a challenge that may be fun-
ReplyDeleteWhat could you do on the mental anguish side that was basically part reluctant part turn-on? Especially the husband but wife as well. Perhaps they meet someone who really wants her and is pushing ideas that they are taking to the bedroom which the husband likes. They dabble thinking they are in control... but slowly the little things become obsessive in stirring the husband.
The reason I say this for all the sex acts in losing it, the one I fantasize with my girlfriend is when Jess was leaned against Tyler and the three were watching tv. She is bare foot and only in pjs. Such an innocent scene except it mentally turns everything normal upside down for me (and most guys). in other words maybe explore the first flirting, tension, that would be at the start of any attraction. But from the husband's view of not wondering if it means something and/or the wife's innocent toying at being naughty with her husband around.
That OMG feeling that takes forever to play out. Maybe the other guy is staying for awhile like losing it 1, and the wife says she will just tease a little. But all the little things that could be normal can also be read by the husband as another flirt. now his wife is sitting with her feet on her friend and nothing but a thin layer of fabric... What kind of fear and anguish could you create?
Anyway, not telling you how to write. You have the talent to write full length books and explore the good emotions that before and at the start. The husband is late coming home and they are already sitting that way. She doesn't get up when he arrives but her friend seems nervous. She doesn't tell him much... I know you can create great plots and twists. But I could read dozens of pages on just his curiosity / anguish / confusion / arousal / uncertainty wife's intentions...
Thanks so much!
DeleteI really did like that scene. I thought that was kind of tense. I'm glad it came across. There's something too, about being at home in your PJs that makes it a grander threat of violation. I will revisit that sometime. I do like that scene. There is a similar in the book Cayman Proxy. I think it's #2, Alone. It's not quite the...ah, I can't say too much cause it will give away some of the tension. It's close to the one in LHW but...but...
Anyway, if you haven't read it, it might suit you. You can buy the whole box set of the first four books, that is the cheapest. The Box Set isn't in Kindle Unlimited at the moment but if you are a KU subscriber, the individual books are all in KU.
In a similar vein in LHW2, to have Geoff witness Dino and Nia openly talking about Stacy and how Nia compares to her. That was intense!
DeleteReally? That was for Nia. I liked it. That's good to know!
DeleteThanks KT, "There's something too, about being at home in your PJs that makes it a grander threat of violation."
DeleteThat is it exactly, normal stuff happening that would be mundane between wife and hubby. But add a third party and it turns the possibilities on end. The wife hasn't done anything wrong and yet just a thin layer of cloth separates so much. Anyway, would love more teasing before it goes full blown.
KT- regarding the seen with Dino - I knew exactly who that was for and it's why it was so hot. To be the husband viewing his wife working out what her lover wants out of this, resolving a relationship, knowing they are going to make love no matter what the outcome of that conversation. Huge turn on.
Deletescene*
DeleteI'll add this for Anon too, based on his last sentence of his reply - I thought the Hotel Sanguinet teasing was outstanding too, in the 'look but don't touch' sense.
Delete"But from the husband's view of not wondering" Did not intend the word "not" - But from the husband's view of wondering with dread, nervousness and excitement...
ReplyDeleteBlack Holes and Revelations-
ReplyDeleteMy eyes are open now. I am really beat up about this story now that I'm seeing what MAY be happening. It's taken me too long to admit what I feared was true by agreeing with what Desperately Waiting and Edwin said.
The admission that Nia has an abusive past has hit me like a ton of bricks, that much I’ve already said. How it’s hit me is intensifying as I slowly realize more things. Mostly looking inward and saying, how could I be so blind and stupid to think that Nia was in to this shit? She isn’t alive and independent just because she has a job now and meeting the men she "wants." She is in pain, "in a dark room with her hands out." The whole time she has been looking for someone to 'get' her, and she finally met a man who she thinks has finally got her (at least to the extent that she thinks of herself and her value as a person) and he wants her to go in to arms of the same terrible, unstable, abusive assholes that she ran to him to escape from. In his defense, he did it because he sees how different and sexual she gets when thinking about them, but he doesn't examine why she gets that way.
Why would she want those men? I’m finally realizing that the ONE piece of evidence that might have demonstrated that her father was a normal guy was anything but. In Kaleidoscope, Nia says she got under her dad’s skin once she became a teenager and so she is convinced Odie will do the same thing to Geoff. Afterwards Geoff thinks about the innocence of his child and exclaims “oh baby” out loud, and he looks to Nia who is withdrawn and distant. I interpreted this as she was thinking to herself, “Geoff, Odie may not be your baby, you shouldn't feel the pain my dad felt of me growing up because she isn't your flesh and blood as much as I was to my father” and the guilt that follows in that terrifying thought that she may be lying to him this whole time. Instead … I now think she was thinking about how much of an asshole rapist her father was. I am now in the camp that believes her father was her abuser. I thought back around Kaleidoscope (I think), why don’t we know more about her family? I think it now makes sense that by knowing her family, her father in particular, we know her darkest truth and we understand her story.
This is a terrifying revelation that I’ve been destroyed over as I’ve worked myself in to realizing, and only now have I allowed myself to make the connections in the story that help make sense of her relationship with Rocco and her demands for masculinity. Rocco is an asshole who takes what he wants, that’s what Nia is looking for out of "men." She bends over backwards to please Rocco, staying late all the time, taking his brutish behavior, blatantly hitting on her even though she is married. She wants him (and men in general) to take her because she sees him as the overpowering masculine father figure she desperately needed in her formative years and was forced to sexualize against her will. Those two worlds (father and lover) horrifyingly fused in her mind.
I remember thinking in Kaleidoscope how gross it was when she ‘suddenly became demur’ and thought ‘did I do good for you daddy?’ I hated that sentence, because it always makes me uncomfortable when women refer to their lovers as their ‘daddy.’ It’s just unsettling, BUT people do it all the time and they supposedly think nothing of it, so I ignored it. It makes literal sense now. In Temporal when Rocco throws Nia to the ground and he says all the terrible things he said to her, she runs through this voice in her head that says things that were similar to what Rocco said, but he didn’t actually say. In this moment, I think she is flashing back to the father who did the same thing Rocco was doing to her then, treating her like shit when she just wanted his love, affection and approval, however horrifying that display of "affection" turned out to be in her life. Those thoughts about herself she’s internalized and made her feel like was truly her. This also explains why she dissociates in the moment she is being taken by Rocco in Montreal and Temporal when in the state of total powerlessness to the time when she experienced it when she was younger.
DeleteShe fears constantly about ‘breaking’ the men in her life, terrified she will lose Geoff, a genuinely good man, and she is chronically incapable of keeping relationships because she has no sustained peace in her life. She thinks herself as being flawed and imperfect. She was Geoff's shadow for years of her life, never really leaving for the real world that Geoff could shield her from. He was everything she stopped believing men could be, genuinely giving and nurturing, emotionally stable, and above all, harmless. She fears what will happen to herself if she lost him, and now I do too. My biggest fear might be coming to fruition. Geoff isn’t losing Nia to another man, he may be losing his wife, period. Cherry Blossoms, aside from the nice positive spin I put on it’s symbolism in my ‘Top 10 list’ is also a symbol for the short time we have in the world, ‘Temporal’ by definition is also 'a moment in time,' which means it, necessarily, ends. Geoff had a premonition of throwing himself over a bridge, does he go down with her?
I am torn up because of how much I’ve enjoyed this as an erotic novel. Thought to myself, Nia’s just acting this way because she’s finally getting the men she wants in her life and wants to explore it. Good for you, Nia, you amazing hot woman you. Able to dichotomize your day-to-day life with acting like a completely unafraid sexual being when a man pushes the right buttons. Now I know why those buttons exist, and I hate myself for ever thinking that way. I’m glad KT has taken the typical 'Hotwife' tropes of aggressive men taking what they want, being assholes, brutish, overpowering and physical as positive things and reminding us all that these traits aren’t always (and usually are never) attached to good people worth having as important of a relationship as a sexual one.
DeleteI could be off on this, I truly fucking hope so, but we will see.
She;s completely changed how I view this book in the past week and a half, it's called into question so much about what I enjoy in this fantasy I've created while reading it. I still legitimately love her work, and this is the best thing I've read from you far and away, but I don't think I can ever read it the same way again. Too much guilt.
Thanks for what you do, KT. I'll need to be more careful next time!
I have become a recluse. I steal away and read only 20 pages at a sitting to stretch the delicious agony and soak up the sexual nuances you weave. You really must stop. I have to get things done.
DeleteAlso, do you have to plumb the depths in the final book? Its a rough world out there right now and I could use some hope. I really need Nia and Geoff to find a way. I want to see a couple who are unconventional but in love make it work. Maybe too much Beatles but I still want to believe that all you need is love. At any rate, I havent seen much of it in the daily news.
ToBe... I've had to think roundabout this post. At first I wasn't sure how to respond except to ask... had Geoff known about an abusive past, would he have encouraged Nia? My gut says no. And when he finds out how horribly guilty will that make him feel? And seeing this, how guilty will Nia feel for holding it back? They could get stuck in a cyclical review of guilty recriminations that either make them stronger or break them. I'm still concerned the sheer tonnage of bombs Nia has for Geoff might well break him. But I've changed my mind... It isn't Geoff that needs to step up, it's Nia. She needs to trust him.
DeleteDon't get me wrong. Geoff needs to step up too. But Nia needs to remember why she fell for him in the first place.
Your post also sheds more light on the wedding reception for me. Her breaking.... did Rocco just echo her father...?
Edwin, I saw this post and I was working on my other one below. I'm of the mind now where Nia did not have such a terrible past. I think all those things are very legitimate questions that need to be asked of Geoff and Nia had it been true.
DeleteAlso, I love Obsessed! Also CP. Take a break from Nia and give me some Atticus!
ReplyDeleteLove your books. Thank you
Really, thank you!
DeleteI need some Atticus right now. Or a whole side project with just Dino...
KT-hmmmm just Dino you say?? Interesting thought..
DeleteA Dino who isn't cheating on his wife...just being Dino...
DeleteThat could be really interesting. I always thought Dino had some potential here. There is something about him... well less so after hearing about the gut punch abuse. But he does have a conscience. He DID try to warn Geoff after all. And that was BEFORE Geoff covered for him , wasn't it? Or was it after? I can't remember now. Point is he's got some depth. Dino being Dino could be fun.
DeleteWell, I was sort of kidding:) It wouldn't literally be Dino. It would be a man like Dino, who wasn't cheating on his wife and had never punched a girl in the stomach. A straightforward romance with a swoon-worthy version of Dino!
DeleteI kind of thought you might have been. But I figured I'd hedge my bets and keep Dino in the spotlight. I meant it though. Dino has much more depth than I was expecting.
Delete2B=2H I really get a kick out of your in-depth, soul-searching, cut to the bone analysis. I don't know how you keep so much detailing your mind at times.
ReplyDeleteI really think you understand what's happening with Nia, much deeper than the much more superficial thou th ts I had in the same direction.
Now, for the hard part... What is going to happen to the key characters into the next book(or two,depending if KT can tie up all the loose ends in one book).
I'll throw out a strawman to get things started:
First, Nia... I think she will go one of two ways, she will either be so shocked by a near-death experience that she will finally gain clarity when she looks back at her life and key relationships. She will of course try to go back to Geoff and Odie with new purpose and gratitude for him.
Or.... She will survive the near accident,but will not change dramatically at all. And the whole house of cards will fall... Even though, Geoff still loves Nia, he will reject Nia to protect her, and open up to other women that will treat him much better. This, of course will be the final straw in Nia's descent, and she will take down Rocco's and Dino's family as well.
Those of you that are by now bored of my rantings probably know what direction I would choose for Nia (hint, I like uplifting endings, like the first option for Nia in the paragraph above).
Geoff will really focus on protecting Odie, and unless Nia really comes back a changed person, he will throw her out to protect Odie.
Rocco will lose his family, maybe his business, and possibly his life, depending on what Maria decides to do. If he can make it through these risks, however, he probably gets the booby prize, Nia, due to the passion he showed in their liason at the church.
Dino may be able to get by without losing his wife and family, assuming he can stay away from Nia. If she runs to him, he'll lose everything as well.
Maria is a real unknown. If she can stay out of trouble, she can just leave Rocco... But she is capable of much more trouble if she puts her mind to it.
I am sure that KT will make me look foolish with all my conjecture,but who knows.
Guhrka - you know I don't get tired of your rantings. As for my own, I think about this story too much, I know. All I can say is I try not to (probably not hard enough) and I still have a career and things to do, so I am able to escape thinking about this story enough lol! I feel like bringing it up in part because I am often thinking, "where did all my time go?"
DeleteWe'll both be vindicated or made foolish by our musings when we the story concludes.
I now root for your happy ending (in light of my recent opinion) because I'm not sure anymore if Nia, of healthy mind, would actually want to pursue men like Dino or Rocco. Again, I could be wrong, there are glimmers of hope for both of those men among their brashness, to conclude they can emotionally support Nia, and maybe she sees or will see that. Still, that would be overlooking some horrendous behavior by those men to reach that conclusion.
Maria and Stacy are interesting, they aren't going to sit idly by as the men in their lives destroy their families. I doubt Maria has the power to destroy Rocco because he has the money he has to defend himself in court and he has the motivation of Nia to get over any emotional distress by Maria. Of course, if Maria "has a friend" she can call to teach Rocco a lesson, then things get interesting and messy indeed.
Stacy we don't know much about right? She's a fighter though, I get the sense.
Geoff is a fighter at heart too, so I think he'll have a Mapplethorpeian last stand in this relationship. It will be stronger in and of itself and have built upon stronger previous attempts to prove he's been trying, than what Pete did in 'Live Free.' Still, I have to wonder if it is enough.
Geoff a fighter? Hmmmm... we did see flashes of that but I think it depends on what happens next.
DeleteIf Nia crashes the car I bet Dino is one of the first responders. Maybe it is bad enough to cover the fight injuries. Things progress from there to her seeing Dino in a new light. Dino the hero. Too easy a plot for a writer like KT I think.
Nia goes to someone. Dino. Angela. Someone. She won't say who beat her up butterfingers point to Geoff. Dino goes after Geoff. Or Rocco does. It gets out. Geoff is ruined professionally regardless of whether or not Nia stands up for him. Geoff finds out Odie is not his. Geoff is devastated. I don't think Nia let's this happen though.
Nia goes to Dino. Tells Dino what happened. Dino confronts Rocco about Maria. They fight, someone gets hurt. Rocco leaves Maria. I can see something along these lines happening. Especially if Dino feels any debt to Geoff for covering with Stacy.
There's so many ways this could go. Personally I'm thinking it's going to be something tangled along the lines of the second scenario.
Yeah, I guess I mean that Geoff won't give up on Nia. Fighter may not be the best term. Dino the first responder is really, really interesting, even if that might be a little too easy.
DeleteI think even though Nia is passed she would never want someone to harm Geoff, i think Nia was blaming herself for getting beat up in the last part so I think she says something about Maria. To whom though is interesting how you laid things out.
I think your last scenario in terms of how someone else finds out about what Maria did is good too.
I liked all of those story lines!
As for Geoff and Nia, I predict they partially make up and Geoff takes his family to their new cottage that they just bought to get away for a while. I predict it won't be the three of them for long though.
pissed instead of passed*
DeleteEdwin - so I am up in the middle of the night randomly, and I decided to actually look up the locations of our characters, because i dont know anything about Toronto. I'm not sure if you knew already based on your Dino as the first responder comment, but I think his firestation would seem to be based on where Royal York is, and where Nia is driving. I think if she gets in accident, Dino might be called there. I wasn't able to Google a literal firestation 455 (which I did because everything else exists that looked at lol), but location wise he is right there. I think the turn is the Gardiner Expressway onto what we know is the Don Valley Parkway, full disclosure.
DeleteThis is mystery that KT probably didn't even mean to make part of her storyline, that I just stumbled on, ha!
Ha ha. I've always wondered if anyone streetviews locations. Some are real some are fictional.
DeleteDino's real fire station would kind of be 433. Royal York is a fictional neighbourhood I made north of Etobicoke. When Geoff gets mad at Nia for going to visit Dino after work he says 455 is out of the way, she had to make a special trip. I think he describes the location there. In my head it's north of Etobicoke, so out of the way. In reality, 433 is between Roncesvalles and the also, obviously, fictional Dragon Pools.
None of this excludes any of your theories about what may happen...
ToBe- naw. I don't know Toronto. I am in Houston and grew up in LA. I just put 2 and 2 together based on characters, jobs, and descriptions of locations written. I had the sense based on KTs writing that Bia is heading in Dino's general direction. I don't recal Rocco's home being mentioned in the area so I'm figuring the accident with Dino showing up or Nia goes to the station. Or to her work. We will just have to wait and see.
DeleteKT- I already knew you used some real locations. Your poetic description of the streets of LA in Obsessed proved that to me. Had me remembering Sunset and Hollywood down to the smell. So I figured Toronto wouldn't be any different. It's good though. A good tool to help suspend disbelief.
Obviously I meant Nia not Bia...
DeleteOk, in my defense ... 4:00am.
DeleteI may or may not have based my entire neighborhood theory on the existence of a Fairmont hotel in downtown Toronto called "Royal York" with a sharp turn from an "expressway" that turns into Don Valley Parkway not terribly far from it (well, from a google birds eye view perspective ... :) ). I couldn't remember where Geoff and Nia live, and all I know of where Dino is, is he is in the opposite direction of where Nia works from home, from the passage that KT mentions. Now I know that is North from Etobicoke. Not that that helps me determine anything, I just know that now lol. What's fact and fiction becomes murky when I know there are facts sprinkled in + ignorance to the area. I have to imagine that's got to be a little fun for KT.
Edwin - I figured you surmised it because you knew how Toronto was and/or you were basing it off of the characters, storyline, etc., I never want to presume someone knew or didn't know something. I just googled some of the things from the last scene and when I started seeing real places I thought about that thought you had, and my insomniatic mind connected dots the moment I saw the name of a hotel.
KT - The only way you stop these random sparks of mental hubris is to write faster.
:)
Top 10 Love Scenes in LHW2 (Rated PG-13)
ReplyDeleteWhy we’re all here, for the lovely Nia to get down and dirty. We keep it somewhat classy here on this blog so I’m not going to go into WHY I think either one is good. That said this a list of my top 10 favorite love scenes in this series. It is definitely not in chronological order, instead it’s ranked on my heart rate level.
This one will definitely have varying opinions, so what's your top scenes?
10. Nia wants to know if Dino beat up Sebastian - Sanctity
9. Dino is drunk - Temporal
8. Geoff and Nia watch her perform in Rocco's truck- Kaleidoscope
7. Dino shows up unannounced, Geoff is home - Sanctity
6. Geoff’s birthday present - Kaleidoscope
5. Nia lays it out for Geoff - Temporal
4. Hotel Sanguinet - Montreal
3. Nia comes home from the club - Cherry Blossoms
2. Rocco, the wedding crasher - Temporal
1. Dino shows up unannounced and Geoff is NOT home - Sanctity.
Top 10 Odeleisms
ReplyDeleteThese are the times when Odie let us know she knows more about life than you did, or was just awesome.
10. “That’s what the Algonquins did … for thousands of years.” - That’s how you set up a tent, duh!
9. “There’s a lot of memories in there.” Seven-year old nostalgia, looking into old crawlspaces.
8. “Dad IS getting old” Odie disses Pops via Skype.
7. “You look how I feel.” Odie watches too much t.v.
6. “Sugar Poops Night?” Yes, Odie, that is correct!
5. “I gotta get away from this rat race, you two are driving me crazy …” Odie wants to go to camp!
4. “You need your diaper changed, poopy-pants” - Grade A slam, check and mate, Winslow!
3. “Weak, Dad.” - Odie is a closet 90’s child, and calls out Pops for baking Nia goods rather than trying to woo mom.
2. “Mom pays more attention to those guys than she does to us” - Oh Odie, if you only knew.
1. The Prince, the Princess, and the Ogre - fear the swimming Ogre.
Ha! Awesome! I have a sneaking feeling that it is Odie that will save the day with the ultimate Odieism in the next book.
DeleteI love all these Top Lists!
DeleteMy favourite that wasn't mentioned was when she squirted her mom with the super-soaker then hid under her sleeping blanket. When Nia came to the tent, I loved her muffled "I love you," from under the sleeping bag.
Same scene:
“Use your muscles, Dad,” she urged.
“Ha, I am,” he said, coaxing the flexible rod into the opening now and shoving it through.
“Got it?” she called.
“Yeah, O. It’s in...”
“Is it square?”
“Is what square?”
“Oh my God, the base of the tent, Dad,” her little bossy voice sighed from the other side of the four-person, double vestibule tent they’d bought today.
Can I join in on these or is that creepy?
I mean I guess the author can join. Don't you have a book to write? :)
DeleteI love your addition, and enjoy the retelling! That scene is in my honorable mention list, I already said the one tent one, which I went with because that was borderline hipster behavior, except it's genuine because she's, you know, seven.
Ha ha, I'm trying, but it's killing me. Need a break from all the sadness...can't believe I'm getting close to not spending any more time with them.
DeleteLooks like the next book will be a double book. Should be two books but I will release them together as one volume.
You can chill with us, we like your ilk!
DeleteJust remember that after a while, our friendship will start to get sort of, conditional... :)
Thanks for the update!! I am super excited about the length, sounds like an epic conclusion.
And not to worry, your crew of ardent supporters evoke Tyler, Jess, and Pete's memory all the time. Something tells me this cast will live on long after you publish.
I submit one other entry into the Odie Hall-of-Fame. "Jenny kissed daddy" Odie, the unwitting provocateur!
DeleteOh yeah! That was a neat little one because there was a weird little jealousy thing going on, her mom almost kissed her boy-crush. It was like she knew she was causing trouble. Though she didn't know it would be that much trouble. She's still learning the adult world. Shades of young Nia...
DeleteIt's always been conditional! And I like it that way...
ReplyDeleteIt is indeed epic. I can't believe I'd planned to wrap this up 2 whole books ago...
Maybe some of our ideas are causing your fertile imagination to bear new fruit?
DeleteThat is a fact.
DeleteThe mark of a good story and strong charachters, or so I believe, is when the narration exceeds the outline. What's the adage? The best laid plans rarely survive the initiation of battle? Something like that.
DeleteYour characters have taken on life. The story soars. I can't wait. But I can be patient for the level of quality.
KT--Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately in the long term), you probably have enough ideas to extend this book for another 5 months of writing. Hate to see you put yourself through the wringer that long though!!
ReplyDeleteKT(aka Pool Shark)-- Just wondering, are the balls all set up now so you can run the table neatly on us, or are there a couple of shots that are just not cleanly lining up yet?
ReplyDeleteBy the way, I thought it would be real difficult to pull things together for your ending in one book. I must be starting to think like you in some respects. I still am hoping for a real hero(ine) to emerge that thinks larger than themselves and lead to a HEA ending for someone in the story, but that possibility is hanging by a thread, and the knife is moving quickly.
Hope you are feeling more envigorated now, and even smiling a bit. Have some fun now!!
Hopes and Expectations -
ReplyDeleteThe titles of these are lyrics from the song ‘Starlight’ by Muse, if you didn’t know.
There's a point when you read LHW1, Cay Pro, and LHW2, when the bottom kind of falls out. I think we all have pictured in our minds what might be the most heart wrenching thing that KT could accomplish, because she is capable of showing us things that are pretty dark. Things that at least I did not see coming. Asking Pete to feel her stomach as Tyler enters her, Nia saving Dino’s “evidence” 24 hours just for Geoff (I tried to class this up, but it’s hard to say these things without a touch of dirt). These are some examples of things that caught my mind off guard. Time’s when I was ill prepared for what I was about to read. Then we deal with heavy themes in LHW1 where a husband watches his wife fall in love with another man right in front of his eyes, and largely through his own acquiescence. Hated that, loved that (yes mostly that), will never forget it. The rough treatment Nia wants, absorbs all light into it’s ethereal, shadowy depths. KT sometimes takes us into places where we lack a lot of understanding, moral standards, or codes of conduct. Is there an old wive’s tale for watching your wife get taken by another man? The knowledge of more entries into the saga plunge the mind into an infinite array of possible motivations, seeking behavioral patterns, prophecies, slips of the tongue, things Odie warned us about :) , to find answers to what will happen next. Cues to understanding the point of it all, a standard from which to base our perception, because it seems sometimes that anything is possible. It’s from that backdrop, and some keen insights from others here, that helped motivate my belief that Nia’s father is an awful human being.
Taking a step back though, what evidence do I have that her father was such a monster? With the help of some divine intervention (ok, ok, KT was worried about me so I got an email), and allowing my devil’s advocate to weigh in, I will walk myself back from the ledge and attempt to dismantle my claim and swim up to only a comfortable level of drowning.
I’ll ease my way out of my terrifying claim by dismantling the evidence that supports it. In two scenes where Nia is powerless in the moment, I took her mental dissociation at those times to mean she was remembering past events, because what she was experiencing with Rocco those times was her normal. Her horrific comfort zone. How did I arrive at that? In Montreal, her first moment of dissociation - she is lifted off where she sees ‘a lover’ and ‘a compatriot.’ Hardly sounds like remembering a terrible event. Instead it sounds like a person seeking acceptance through the comforting memory of people she can trust. At this point in the story, we’re already aware that Geoff was her comfort after her rough experiences with her lovers. In her thoughts she remembers coffee talks, exactly what she did with Geoff in college. Instead of being some terrible sociopath telling her “you’ve come this far, we love you” she is remembering she is loved and has his support to give her strength in her convictions. This isn’t some horrible memory manifesting itself through an associated experience, but a woman reminding herself she isn’t alone in this world when she experiences her guilty pleasure.
Exhibit B - fingers touching where they shouldn't, in ‘Temporal.’ Ok, that one is pretty iron clad molestation. Is it the full on rape that I landed on? No evidence whatsoever to support that. And her father is responsible? Nothing there either. It’s for that reason that I will take a step back out of respect for Papa Giannopolous and say, sorry for ever accusing him of that. I hope he doesn’t have any connections to the Toronto mob scene (is that even a thing?). And again, what does Nia do when she is in her dark state? Clutches the stone gift that her husband gives her to give her the strength to feel comfortable in herself, although I wonder how strong that worked based on what she was thinking in that moment.
DeleteSo where did the hate on her father even come from? There is only one reference (that I can remember) that Nia makes directly about her father before Dino says what he did about her. In that scene, which I outline in my other ‘Black Holes …” post, it really seems like Nia becomes distant because she feels guilty about not really knowing if Geoff is Odie’s father, and not that she is thinking over the horrible memory of her father. I go back to my 2nd reaction post (I write too much, I know!) where I say that it would be ridiculous to ever come close to comparing Odie and Geoff to herself and her father, if her father did what we think happened to her. I’m back to that state of mind now.
So why did Dino say that thing about her dad? I don’t know, maybe he was really strict, maybe he was a normal everyday father and Dino is the boyfriend trying to win over his daughter’s heart over his dead body, creating some animosity between them. Something tells me Dino could raise that kind of reaction out of a father. Hardly a predator, just the father of a wild child like Nia. Why would she implicitly defend her father by saying something like, “don’t talk about my father” to Dino? Why would he even bring him up with her? You want to really turn a girl off if he did what has been claimed? Mood. Killer.
DeleteI think he may have been a rather strict guy, which may be why Nia has those intense thoughts that she is ‘garbage’ and a ‘slut’ when she was on the ground in the rain because of Rocco. Maybe he was more emotionally abusive or even physically abusive to her, and made her feel this way about herself and Rocco bubbled those thoughts to the surface. All of these are possible. Also possible is how much stranglehold Rocco has on Nia’s happiness now. Afterall, she became devastated by Rocco’s reaction to Geoff knowing about their sex, and Dino, depressed for a week. Perhaps she was thinking those things because his opinion of her matters that much!
Sorry for the schizophrenia of these posts, but with so much mystery, I went down a dark rabbit hole and picked out pieces of this book to make my case. Which seemed pretty iron clad until I had a shake up. “Did I do good for you daddy?” was ew, but that will always be my opinion, and not an abnormal thing for people to utter, or in this case, think. I’m back to enjoying this book the way it’s intended, as an erotic thriller.
2B don't sweat it. it's all good. All we have had here is speculation. For whatever reasons we have bonded with these characters. The main reason, of course, being the quality of KTs craft. Getting lost in the story, dreading for the characters, happens. I'm glad KT brought you back from the precipice. That being said I too need to remember that this is just a story and all our discussion is just so much speculation.
DeleteFor me it is a matter of how much I identify with Geoff, where with Pete I did not, and how much Nia reminds me of my 1st fiancee. I'm not going to get into details, but will say the story is the worst kind of tragic. Though if KT wants to hear it I will share it, email maybe because I don't think I could do public. Point is these two charachters are resonating with me in a way makes me remember the pain of that time as if I were there again. The hollow feeling in my gut. The pain in my chest. I have to remind myself that these people are not real no matter how much it might feel like they are.
For what it's worth I apologize if I played a part to encouraged you toward any personal DARK place our discussions took you.
Evolution of a Hotwife.
ReplyDeleteI sometimes get the sense that there is animosity towards Nia, which has prompted me to think why others could land on that thought. I feel it too to be fair, but I think it’s pretty easy to get stuck on singular events in this story and think, she really should have done that differently, and boy she is a terrible person who can’t see what’s right and wrong. In particular, I think the three decisions she made where her actions have caused the most damage in this book are when she 1) sees Dino to find out about Sebastian, 2) sleeps with Dino without Geoff’s knowledge (again), and 3) let’s Rocco take her at Donna’s Wedding. In the interest of time, and because I think the major crux of my point sort of defends the other two violations I mention, I’ll attempt to defend Nia on her decision to see Dino the second time. It hasn’t really snowed all that much on the Eastern Seaboard, but I think that Nia doing what she is doing is the result of a runaway snowball that could override her (or most people’s) better judgment.
I think the major thing to understand about Nia is she has always wanted men like Rocco and Dino. Leaving aside the fact that they are tall, dark, and handsome, Rocco and Dino are alpha males to the fullest extent. One man is very wealthy, and maintains that wealth by hard work and drive and a tremendous manual skill set, the boss of his own business. The other saves lives for his occupation, and has proven he will defend his honor and that of his love’s by literally fighting off the competition. These are the (sometimes dark) objects of just about every warm blooded woman’s desires since as long as I’ve tried to understand them.
More to the point though, she knows what kind of men that Dino and Rocco are because she’s known them for years. These two men are not abstract concepts or archetypes of her female fantasies, but the manifestation of them. Not only are they staring her down in the flesh, she knows what one (at least) is capable of bringing out of her, because she’s seen his potential.
Geoff became a great option because Nia wanted to escape the pain that men like Dino caused her. However, I think it is really important that it seems like the damage that Dino has done has largely been forgiven and, frankly, never even seemed to be all that maddening to her when she reflects on it. His behavior seems to be pretty reprehensible at times (past and present), but she seems to be over it. That has to be the case because she continues to feel such a large amount of attraction towards Dino.
Consider also what has already happened to Nia as she confronts Dino for the second time. She has already had toe-curling sex with his brother, a desire she developed largely because of what Dino has shown her. This led to one interaction with Dino already based around what Rocco said to Nia in Montreal, about Odie. Then she had the kind of sex that Dino taught her was possible again and finds out that it was in fact Dino who beat up the stripper that, for all he knows, violated her honor. Those actions could seem somewhat inexcusable, but they are also not the only things going through Nia's mind at the moment.
DeleteWhen Geoff says she can sleep with someone else, she tells Geoff she doesn’t want to just do it with some mindless good looking body, but a man with some personality and passion. What does Geoff do? In part because they’ve been tossing around these names in bed before, but continuing on that trend, he keeps bringing up Rocco and Dino. She tells him that it’s a bad idea. Dino because of the history, and Rocco, more for the Boss/Employee relationship, but she knows even then that would likely end badly. Still the persistence of their contact with these men, and the progressive discussions about what turns Nia on about them, had an obvious effect on her (him too). To the point where Nia breaking the non-existent but, arguably, implied “ground rules” that are in place for the wife-sharing relationship that Geoff and Nia have, can’t be considered that egregious. Even as she acknowledges that it’s a bad idea to involve Dino laying on her back with him, she knew in the back of her mind that part of what she was doing was okay with Geoff. I think she knows that he is also hurt by what she does, as subsequent conversations in ‘Sanctity’ and ‘Temporal’ bear out, but god is that confusing. Why not just give in? Afterall, if one of your kinks is loving a man who takes what he wants, isn’t this part of why they are doing this?
I still can’t get over Nia’s lack of communication throughout this series. This is something I cannot easily disregard. Nia may have made Geoff’s belief that this was okay a little bit easier by saying vital information at times when anger/jealous feelings could have become confused with getting off. She waited until Geoff was nearly finished to tell him (in her own state of arousal) that she cheated on him with Dino. Waited until Geoff agreed it was okay for her to sleep with Rocco to tell Geoff that she was married when it happened. I am by no means saying she’s manipulating his state of being to deaden the impact of her confessions, but it certainly made his opinion of it much more confusing, not just to her, but possibly to himself.
She’s also continued not to disclose everything as she goes down this road. She didn’t tell Geoff that she made out with Rocco when they were younger, not a terrible misstep, but something that may have made it easier for Geoff to get turned on by her thinking about him. She still has not told Geoff the time period when she cheated on him with Dino. She hasn’t let Geoff how Rocco and Dino think of him as they finally get a chance to be with her. I feel like that particular fact should matter more to Nia than it has. I feel like a lot of this will be explained in the last part, but the damage has long been done.
Won’t be too much longer!
ToBe -I am, mostly, in agreement with you. Geoff and Nia share the burden of this massive clusterfuck. Geoff, though his intentions might be good, should have listened and not pushed Nia, he's about to lose her because of his insecurities. Let's also remember he wanted the best friend that cried on his shoulder back. In a sense Nia was right in Temporal, he wanted her hurt. But, he wanted to be the one she came back to.
DeleteFor Nia, aside from the deflecting and dishonesty, my biggest issue is the way she doesn't think of Odie. You can see this in the very first writing at Nia's viewpoint in book 1. She looks at Odie as HIS daughter. Not hers. Not ours. His. It's this disconnect that bugs me. It's not that she's been or is a bad mom up to this point. But that disconnect has grown.
Honestly, were it not for the violence I'd feel bad for Dino. The lovelorn stud. His feelings are obvious. And he's as much punishing himself as anyone else is. I'd love it if he stood up for Geoff the way Geoff covered for him. It would be a trope, sure, but it would show the conscience I think may be lurking in there.
I find your analysis sound ToBe. I'm just curious where Nia's jealousy and Odie will fit in when the shit hits the fan.
You make an excellent point (again) about Nia. I agree that she has this strange looking relationship with Odie. She feels jealousy when she sees how she gets with Geoff, allows herself to feel like an afterthought as she spends time with them at the Choo event. I've already mentioned in another post she has made selfish decisions coming home from Montreal, forcing Geoff to spend time with her rather than Odie, and by not being there for her daughter when they pick her up from camp. I never really thought about why that was other than Nia being careless. I think you might be on to something! I wonder if part of it is sort of a need to psychologically distance herself from the deeper pain that she feels seeing them together knowing he may not be her biological father, and refusing to acknowledge that fact. Sort of a projection of sorts, in that she projects that Odie must be Geoff's daughter when, at least in the genetic sense, she is more Nia's daughter than his.
Delete"I wonder if part of it is sort of a need to psychologically distance herself from the deeper pain that she feels seeing them together knowing he may not be her biological father, and refusing to acknowledge that fact."
DeleteExactly what concerns me. She's spent so much time convincing herself and everyone that Odie is Geoff, true or not, that she has stepped aside and forgotten that she is hers too... all except in one aspect, that she is convinced Odie will be just like her in a few years and break daddy's heart. It has the effect of fanning the flames of her jealousy because all she sees is another girl, not her daughter, taking her love and best friend from her and potentially hurting him.
And I do think Nia truly loves Geoff. She's just lost sight of how to balance her desires and fears against reality in the face of believing the that. Of course I could be way off base.
Also keep in mind that one of Nia's arguments in favor of Odie being Geoff's is Odie's creativity. I submit that the Dino and Rocco both carry creativity within them as well. For evidence I point to Doll House. Remember Nia's reaction to seeing that pool. She was impressed with the design. And rightfully so. It took creative genius to pull that design off. Yes it was Rocco not Dino, but genes are genes.
DeleteThis might be needless correction, but I got the chronology of Nia saying she slept with Dino when they were married leading to Geoff's permission to sleep with Rocco, reversed. The general point applies but the timing of Nia's confession wasn't THAT bad.
DeleteMy head almost fell off nodding so much while reading this exchange. Thanks so much for writing your thoughts. I'm happy that people can make sense of my characters the way I intended!
DeleteEverything you've said here is perfect to me (to my interpretation of the story).
One correction: The dollhouse would have been sub-contracted by Rocco to some fancy carpenter. Not done by Rocco. But the success of his landscaping is not just drive and pricing, he does have creativity...
Maybe we should stop pontificating. I think we keep adding fuel to the fire. :P
ReplyDeleteI love the status bar! It's got to be one of my favorite things on the internet right now.
DeleteWhere she's at is why we love KT. Making sure she ends it the way she wants to!
Agreed!
DeleteI think she's planning a release for V Day...what better day to publish an end to our fav love story....
DeleteYes! I knew I wasn't the only one who comes here every few days to see if it's moved forward. We seem to be closing in a little more each time I check, so yay!
DeleteCongratulations JL23, you are the 150th entry to this blog. You don't win anything, but this this largest number of entries that I remember... for any author that uses this approach for feedback.
ReplyDeleteI personally believe that KT is putting her heart and soul into this ending, and I expect it to be some of her best work. A lot of loose ends to tie up, and I believe she has a real surprise ending worked up that will knock our socks off.
Hope all of us can stay sane as we wait for this next book (including KT of course)!!
Wow, what a difference a year makes huh? Her blog is nearing her first birthday! Her first upload was over a year ago, happy belated Amazon birthday! I haven't been on this blog as long as you Guhrka but it has really grown a ton in the short time ive been on here. What I love is that she hasn't changed a bit in the personality of her posts!
DeleteI love that the band's pretty much all here, ha!
Thank you! I do get excited every time I see someone has posted something. This blog is a big reason that I'm able to keep going!
DeleteI must say that when I first noticed that there were two bars showing near completion above, I really got excited thinking the second one was for the next Cayman Proxy book. Closer examination showed that KT had just split the next booking two...:(
ReplyDeleteHowever, after more thought, I realized that I had already accepted that KT would either need two books or one extremely long one to properly pull things together for a proper ending.
So, while I still hold hope she'll get back to CPro, in the near future, I still am salivating over the great ending she has planned for Nia, Geoff, Odie, Rocco,Dino, Maria and everyone else.
KT, my meager congratulations on making it to the finish line on Part 7. I imagine that making it to that point is just as much psychological as it is practical.
ReplyDelete"I can't wait" comments are implied at this point, right?
Indeed! And I hope you didn't rip yourself to shreds in the process...
DeleteHa ha, I do feel a little numb these days, honestly. A little empty. But that's good. I put it all into Geoff and Nia...
DeleteDW is wondering how long proofing takes??? I'm desperately awaiting a finish in both chapters....
ReplyDeleteProofing is done! The book has been submitted to Amazon now. It can take up to 72 hours to publish but it's usually around 8 in my experience.
DeleteThe good news is that the wait to the final book (and believe me, you'll want to read it, whew) will be much shorter. Possibly just a few days!
Might be 8 hours or do in Canada or the US but not here in the U.K.
ReplyDeleteThe anticipation is overwhelming, can't wait to see where you have taken Geoff Nia et al
Hopefully lots of rough sex and cuckokd angst